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Thread: MENS NOVICE... Odd placements

  1. #1
    GOLDEN DREAMS RealtorGal's Avatar
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    Question MENS NOVICE... Odd placements

    Take a look at these placements after the SP. It is REALLY strange! One fellow has placements from 1st place to 5th, while another goes from 1st to 6th! What's up with that?

    http://usfsa.org/event_related_detai...vmen-short.htm

  2. #2
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Is this the usual deal at this level? Maybe at the novice level one guy is really good at spins, very weak at footwork, or something like that. Then the judges' placements reflect the weight that individual judges place on different aspects of a performance.(?)

    I wonder if we will see tne same kind of spread under CoP judging.

    Mathman

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    Presentation

    The variability in placements seems to be in the varied opinions regarding the skaters' presentation abilities. The first place skater had two 4th place ordinals because of lower presentation marks than his technical scores (4.4/4.2). The fourth place skater had one 1st place ordinal because that judge marked his presentation much higher than his technical score (3.8/.4.2).

    The difference of opinion in regard to presentation amongst the panel can lead to a wide range of ordinal placements.

  4. #4
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I'll have to check my book when I have more time... but it seemed that there was only a couple of kids who were dead on with both presentation and elements... the rest it seemed to be one or the other, and a couple just crumbled under pressure...

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    If you check some regional results from Junior level down, they were just like that, the placements were totally scranbled.

    Guess the lower level the competetion, the more politics.

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    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I don't think it's politics... aren't the judges for those events still new in the ranks? or am I completely off?

    I don't think I'll be commenting on the novice stuff until tomorrow... Erin kept me out late and now the lights are off and she's asleep and I am up and it's dark in here

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    I asked one of the judges about that sort of placements mess last year. I was told that some of the judges are giving skaters higher ordinals for attempted difficulty while others are giving higher ordinals for cleaner programs. It's a clash of philosophies. It may be possible that we will see some similar rankings when the USFSA institutes COP.

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    http://p068.ezboard.com/bstrawberrycanyonfsc
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealtorGal
    Take a look at these placements after the SP. It is REALLY strange! One fellow has placements from 1st place to 5th, while another goes from 1st to 6th! What's up with that?

    http://usfsa.org/event_related_detai...vmen-short.htm
    This reminds me of that playasport game hahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle
    I don't think it's politics... aren't the judges for those events still new in the ranks? or am I completely off?
    Not really. To be judging at Nationals, they have to have a national competition appointment. It may be that there is a higher level of appointment needed to judge seniors-- would have to check the rulebook for details. But you'll notice that some of the judges for the novice men were also judging senior ladies, so obviously that those individuals had the same level of experience.

    I think it's more a case of the skaters at those levels being less consistent in their strengths and weaknesses and different judges valuing different aspects more highly.

    If you look in the middle ranks of the senior men and ladies, you'll see ordinal spreads of more than 5 places there as well. Granted, those fields were larger, but even so...

    Take the top 5 senior men and top 5 senior ladies out of the equation and imagine that the 6th place finishers had been 1st in their respective short programs and so on down the line, and the ordinals would look pretty similar for the seniors as for the novices.

  10. #10
    Marissaontheice
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    What level is BRANDON MROZ????

  11. #11
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    Brandon Mroz is a second-year novice. Last year he placed 7th in Novice Men at 2004 U.S. Nationals at the age of 13, and then he won the Novice bronze medal at the North American Challenge Skate in Canada in August, but he did not qualify for 2005 Nationals because he placed 6th at Midwestern Sectionals (the final qualifier - it was an especially deep and talented field there this year) in November 2004 (top 4 from Mids advanced). I believe he may be competing Novice again in 2005-06 (2006 Nationals is being held in his hometown of St. Louis).

    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly
    I think it's more a case of the skaters at those levels being less consistent in their strengths and weaknesses and different judges valuing different aspects more highly.
    Definitely! I was there and the range of ordinals from the judges is pretty typical for novice competitions in general (club comps as well as Nationals).

    In the Novice Men's SP at Nationals, the top 6 after the short happened to be the ones that landed their 3 jump passes on one foot, but the quality of their skating (including stroking, spins, footwork, posture, etc.) varied among them.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 02-07-2005 at 11:19 AM.

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