Hersh Cohen Article (unfavorable)

chuckm · Jan 12, 2005

But Tara had even less to be rotated than Sasha. Tara was 4'11", no more than 90 lbs and completely undeveloped when she won the OGM, and the 3/3 still destroyed her hip flexor.

Sasha is 5'2" and does have a body shape, small though it may be. There is still a lot more of Sasha to be spun around than there was of Tara.

Piel · Jan 12, 2005

Good point. Tara also had that awful leg wrap and IIRC poor technique. Could that have anything to do with her hip damage?

Lucy25 · Jan 12, 2005

soogar said:
As for Sasha not wanting to change, there were many people who felt that Robin made a mockery of the beautiful Swan Lake program choreographed by TT. I personally am not impressed with Robin's choreography. It's not as if Sarah was a really artistic skater. .

I thought it was pretty common knowledge (with Sasha even saying something to the effect in her journal) that the choreography was changed in Swan Lake so that Sasha could skate it clean. I thought I even read in an article quotes from Robin stating that the program was redone in order for Sasha to get used to the feeling of having a clean skate. I never got any impression that Robin simply changed the choreography and that it happened to be lousy. Of course Sasha wasn't able to be clean with a very watered down version.

I agree with Mathman though, I feel sorry for Sasha. Her PR seems to have been working very hard pushing the whole "Robin and I are very good friends, but I was too homesick" angle, and this article seems to put this in doubt. Although I know most people on the net figured it wasn't that cut and dry anyway. At first I thought that Sasha might have an easy time at Nationals because the pressure will all be on Michelle. I no longer think this. I think Sasha knows she really needs to prove herself at this competition, and that might really hurt her. I agree that the classy thing for Robin to do would to have kept her mouth shut, but maybe she is doing a preemptive strike? The poster who mentioned how mild an article this is compared to other sports is dead on.

euterpe · Jan 12, 2005

When Sasha insisted that she would have won Worlds if she had landed one more triple, Robin knew there would be no meeting of minds. Then when Sasha went to Connecticut on her own to 'train' while she was having her programs done by other choreographers, Robin had to know she was on the way out. If Sasha wasn't motivated to train, there was no way Robin could possibly make her do it, but the end result---Sasha's poor performance at Campbell's, and then at Marshall's---was very embarrassing for Robin, because it reflected on her abilities as a coach, and she couldn't say anything about the reasons behind the bad performances.

But I think Sasha's remark during her press conference--that she and Robin were good friends and she stayed with her even though her skating was terrible--was the last straw. It's one thing to have a bad day on the ice, it's quite another to imply that the terrible skating was due to the coaching.

What Robin said wasn't all bad. She does have respect for Sasha's talents, and wishes her well. But on a professional basis, Robin did not want what was good PR for Sasha to be turned into a black mark on herself.

lavender · Jan 12, 2005

I'm sure Robin and Sasha like each other. I just don't know what Sasha wants from a coach.

Eeyora · Jan 12, 2005

Mathman said:
Well, I feel sorry for Sasha.

But she has one way to shut everybody up.

MM

I couldn't agree with you more. I don't think we should give up on this girl just yet.

The only one I felt was harsh in this article was Hersch.

sk8m8 · Jan 12, 2005

For those of you that think that Robin was harsh or mean about Sasha...please remember that reporters have ALL editorial control and rarely give subjects permission to read or control what is printed or broadcast. Robin may have said a good deal more, and even more favorable things about Sasha, but the author may have cut or omitted some of them for the sake of article length or (god forbid) his own personal "editorial viewpoint." One should not only keep this in mind for this article, but for ALL articles. Being "factual" and "telling the whole story" are two seperate things. Perhaps we should reserve judgment since the news media generally thinks that the public doesn't have enough understanding/capablities of reading a multi-page articles. God forbid, it might get in the way of thier reports on the Anniston/Pitt breakup

Doggygirl · Jan 12, 2005

The Silver Lining...

I'm not an EXTREME lover or hater of any skater. IMO, Sasha has tons of talent, and I would personally like to enjoy her skating while she realizes her full potential. So I hope that comes to pass.

That being said, I find it REFRESHING as a figure skating fan to read direct interview quotes that at least seem honest from the perspective of the person being interviewed. Many of us spend lots of time just speculating stuff on our own, or reading articles filled with quotes that are clearly meaningless.

Here's the good news. If Sasha really does have an issue listening to and following the recommendations of her coaches, then there is a possibility for her to change that, and potential improve and reach her potential. I would be far more disappointed if Robin had said things like "yes, she worked her ever loving a$$ off, did EVERYTHING I recommended, and still we can't seem to get a clean LP....." That would either mean Robin totally is off the mark as a coach, or that Sasha has a REALLY serious mental barrier for LP competition.

So...Sasha might just WOW us all at Nats. Or maybe not. We will know for sure in a few days. But mean time, I personally hope that maybe she just needs to get a bit more serious about her training regimine and her "listening" to her highly paid coaches. That's a problem that can easily be fixed should Sasha choose that path.

2 cents.

DG

hockeyfan228 · Jan 12, 2005

chuckm said:
hockeyfan228: "Cohen received several first place ordinals over Arakawa with the skate she had. (She may actually have had more that were dropped by the computer selection of scores.) To think that had she landed her all of triples/triple combos properly would have given her the victory isn't that far off the mark."

Kwan skated after Cohen and not only took Sasha's three 1st place ordinals, but added still another one. Sasha didn't have any 3/3s last season (she never attempted any after Worlds 2003, where she landed a 3Z3T then bombed on a spin and a solo 3T). Robin wanted Sasha to work on 3/3s but Sasha didn't think she needed one to beat Arakawa, since she'd been beating her all through the GP Season.

What Sasha said was all she needed was one more triple, and that's just plain bunk. She was so stiff and rigid in her FS and skated without expression or feeling of any kind in one of the flattest performances I've ever seen from her. Her performance contrasted poorly with both Arakawa's spirited skate and Kwan's passionate one.

Sasha also seemed to have overlooked her problems on two jumps: bobbling the opening 3Z combo, and popping her final jump. Arakawa and Kwan both skated clean, something Sasha seems constitutionally incapable of doing in the FS at a major event.

I didn't claim that Cohen had 3/3 combos, but that she had combos with triples in them. If she were able to get three -- 1/3 -- first place ordinals from Arakawa with that performance, throwing in a triple at the end, or a triple at the end of a combinationation makes it plausible that she could have picked up two more. Under 6.0, what you did for me lately -- i.e., the last 30 seconds -- counts more than under CoP.

Kwan may have come along and taken all of Cohen's first place ordinals, but that doesn't mean that Cohen wouldn't have beaten Arakawa with another triple.

I don't think that this would have been good -- I though it was criminal that Cohen or Kwan got a single first-place ordinal from Arakawa -- but that doesn't mean she was crazy to think this could have happened.

kyla2 · Jan 12, 2005

Hmmmmm.......

I think it would have been more professional of Robin not to say anything. I don't agree that Sasha needed to stretch herself even further. She was having too many problems with her jump technique and needed to work on her basics again. Her Nutcracker is a very nice program and nicely choreographed. Sasha has a strong program if Nicks can help her fix her jump issues and her confidence issues. Having said that, some of this is Sasha's lack of conditioning and committment to doing what she needs to do-train. I also think her flexibility works against her when she lands her jumps. I still think returning to John Nicks was the right thing to do.

attyfan · Jan 12, 2005

This type of comment isn't new. I read somewhere that, after Olys, Sasha was reported as saying that if she had one more triple, she might have won (or at least medaled). Yet, Sasha still ignores the direction of two more experienced coaches (TAT, RW) in her training, and, still fails to skate cleanly. IMHO, she is spending too much time on "if only ..." and not enough time listening. There are plenty of "if only"s in skating -- "if only" there had been no streaker in Dortmund, would Kwan have gotten any 6.0's (and first place ordinals), or would she have attempted a 3/3 are only a few. The "if only"s are great for fan speculation, but that's it.

R.D. · Jan 12, 2005

I agree to a point that "if only" or "what if" situations are good for fan speculation and predictions. But when a skater starts to think like that, I think that's when you run into trouble. Looks like she hasn't found the right formula yet, and it's a question now whether she ever will.

Mathman · Jan 12, 2005

millie said:
Probably if Sasha had a Corvette and gave Phil rides to free basketball games, he would say good things about her, too.

I think you're on to something here, Millie. In the PR business, a little "face time" never hurts! :laugh:

sk8m8 said:
For those of you that think that Robin was harsh or mean about Sasha...please remember that reporters have ALL editorial control and rarely give subjects permission to read or control what is printed or broadcast. Robin may have said a good deal more, and even more favorable things about Sasha, but the author may have cut or omitted some of them for the sake of article length or (god forbid) his own personal "editorial viewpoint." One should not only keep this in mind for this article, but for ALL articles. Being "factual" and "telling the whole story" are two seperate things.

You beat me to the punch making that point, Sk8m8. That's exactly right. No doubt everything Robin Wagner said was accurately quoted. Still, it is the columnist that selects and spins things to suit the predetermined and one-dimensional slant of the story.

Robin wasn't the one who quoted from Ovid, after all.

Similarly, Hersh's article about Michelle at the basketball game, cute as it was, presented Michelle pretty much as a fluff-head with no deeper interests than keeping up with celebrity gossip.

Well, OK. There are other things that he could have written, but that was the slant that article took. It sells papers.

Mathman.

sk8fanconvert · Jan 13, 2005

Interesting article. Hearing from a coach at much length is a rarity.

Controversy and rivalry are generally believed to fuel this sport. (What about excellence and surpassing beauty? Oh well.)

All this media together is meant to build up the sport (tho I think it tears it down at the same time). The buildup feeds into a small cadre of fans who take untenably biased positions- the Kwanatics and the Sashcists- and make this media-built circus real.

In the end, I just want to see some great skating, from everybody. True, I have opinions on who's most capable, but we shall see (for the most part- there's always the "wuzrobbed" discussion to keep the fires burning).

Truly, none of this (like most sport and entertainment news) deserves anything but the merest speck of coverage. It might as well be E! True Hollywood Story on the Hilton Sisters! But as long as they're going to put that dreck on, we ought to get a few words about skating.

Interesting to me that really only a handful of people control much of the spin and information coming from skating. Hersh and Brennan, but who else? ABC doesn't get into the nitty gritty much. Rumor flourishes when info is that controlled.

mzheng · Jan 13, 2005

attyfan said:
This type of comment isn't new. I read somewhere that, after Olys, Sasha was reported as saying that if she had one more triple, she might have won (or at least medaled). Yet, Sasha still ignores the direction of two more experienced coaches (TAT, RW) in her training, and, still fails to skate cleanly. IMHO, she is spending too much time on "if only ..." and not enough time listening. There are plenty of "if only"s in skating -- "if only" there had been no streaker in Dortmund, would Kwan have gotten any 6.0's (and first place ordinals), or would she have attempted a 3/3 are only a few. The "if only"s are great for fan speculation, but that's it.

ITA.

But if so many of her diehard fans saying the "if only ...", media saying "if only ...", her friends saying "if only ...", her family member (OK I'm a little strech here) saying "if only ....". How could she not thinking "if only ...."?

Bosman401 · Jan 13, 2005

While I agree that Sasha can quiet all criticism and speculation by finally skating up to her capabilities at Nationals this year, I don't see what there is to feel sorry for her about.

R.D. · Jan 13, 2005

Bosman401 said:
I don't see what there is to feel sorry for her about.

I don't either. In a way, she brought all this upon herself IMO.

elingrace4eva · Jan 13, 2005

Red Dog said:
I don't either. In a way, she brought all this upon herself IMO.

I've been trying really hard to stay out of this thread, because I am a Sasha fan, but this comment really bothered me.

I really don't think that's fair. I mean, we're getting one person's opinion, and you have to look at the source. It's a coach who Sasha left, and, apparantly, it was not an amicable parting.

I don't know Sasha. And I'm not going to say that she's this sweet, loving person, because I have no way of knowing that. (And, I would tend to doubt it, for strong competitors are not sweet people). However, other than these comments from Robin, I also have no justification for thinking she's a *****.

All I know, is we're only hearing one side of the argument. And regardless of whether or not she "brought it on herself" as you put it, it still mustn't feel that good to be bashed by a former friend in the newspaper.

ritymeez · Jan 13, 2005

"In my mind, success for Sasha meant not second or third but being a champion," Wagner said.
"I was concerned I couldn't get Sasha to agree with what I felt needed to be done," Wagner said Monday.
"She is a magnificent skater with magnificent artistic qualities, but why not push yourself?" Wagner said. "Why not do a new spiral sequence, a triple-triple (jump) combination, something challenging musically?
"You can do those things only if you are willing to accept mental and physical discomfort on a daily basis. It is very difficult for Sasha to get out of her comfort zone."
"Talent, greatness and potential sometimes cause an athlete to become complacent," Wagner said. "Sasha was becoming complacent. If you're not No. 1, you can't go into a holding pattern."
"I could not get Sasha to really understand and commit to the training program I felt she needed to execute if she wanted to improve," Wagner said. "She said yes to everything we discussed last December, but when it came down to actually doing it, I don't think she believed it in her heart."
"I like Sasha very much, and I hope she gets to be a champion," Wagner said. "It was frustrating and disappointing we couldn't do it together."

I just wanted to sort out what Hersh wrote and Wagner said. While reading this, it didn't seem like Robin was that harsh on Sasha, but that's my p.o.v..

Doggygirl · Jan 13, 2005

The Catch 22...

Elite athletes in all sports want media attention - it's good for them and it promotes them. Sometimes even negative media promotion promotes them in their sport. It comes with the territory.

I am nobody's Uber Fan including Sasha's, or Michelle's, etc. "Sweet and Loving" just isn't a quality that would make any elite international athlete successful. Taking a hard and honest look at your shortcomings, and developing a firm strategy through training to improve is what gives elite athletes the opportunity to move up.

So...it doesn't matter what Robin has to say, or what Sasha has to say, or what Nicks or anyone else has to say. It's all about what Sasha DOES!

And given her raw talent, I am sitting in my armchair hoping she makes wise and tough decisions for herself, and ignores the hoopla.

DG

Hersh Cohen Article (unfavorable)

chuckm

Piel

On Edge

Lucy25

euterpe

lavender

Eeyora

sk8m8

Doggygirl

hockeyfan228

kyla2

attyfan

Custom Title

R.D.

Mathman

sk8fanconvert

mzheng

Bosman401

R.D.

elingrace4eva

ritymeez

Doggygirl

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