Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 88

Thread: Hersh Cohen Article (unfavorable)

  1. #46
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    821
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Well, I feel sorry for Sasha.

    But she has one way to shut everybody up.

    MM
    I couldn't agree with you more. I don't think we should give up on this girl just yet.


    The only one I felt was harsh in this article was Hersch.

  2. #47
    average opinionated skate fan
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Reston, VA
    Posts
    930
    For those of you that think that Robin was harsh or mean about Sasha...please remember that reporters have ALL editorial control and rarely give subjects permission to read or control what is printed or broadcast. Robin may have said a good deal more, and even more favorable things about Sasha, but the author may have cut or omitted some of them for the sake of article length or (god forbid) his own personal "editorial viewpoint." One should not only keep this in mind for this article, but for ALL articles. Being "factual" and "telling the whole story" are two seperate things. Perhaps we should reserve judgment since the news media generally thinks that the public doesn't have enough understanding/capablities of reading a multi-page articles. God forbid, it might get in the way of thier reports on the Anniston/Pitt breakup

  3. #48
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    2,802

    The Silver Lining...

    I'm not an EXTREME lover or hater of any skater. IMO, Sasha has tons of talent, and I would personally like to enjoy her skating while she realizes her full potential. So I hope that comes to pass.

    That being said, I find it REFRESHING as a figure skating fan to read direct interview quotes that at least seem honest from the perspective of the person being interviewed. Many of us spend lots of time just speculating stuff on our own, or reading articles filled with quotes that are clearly meaningless.

    Here's the good news. If Sasha really does have an issue listening to and following the recommendations of her coaches, then there is a possibility for her to change that, and potential improve and reach her potential. I would be far more disappointed if Robin had said things like "yes, she worked her ever loving a$$ off, did EVERYTHING I recommended, and still we can't seem to get a clean LP....." That would either mean Robin totally is off the mark as a coach, or that Sasha has a REALLY serious mental barrier for LP competition.

    So...Sasha might just WOW us all at Nats. Or maybe not. We will know for sure in a few days. But mean time, I personally hope that maybe she just needs to get a bit more serious about her training regimine and her "listening" to her highly paid coaches. That's a problem that can easily be fixed should Sasha choose that path.

    2 cents.

    DG

  4. #49
    Go NJ Devils
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,700
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm
    hockeyfan228: "Cohen received several first place ordinals over Arakawa with the skate she had. (She may actually have had more that were dropped by the computer selection of scores.) To think that had she landed her all of triples/triple combos properly would have given her the victory isn't that far off the mark."

    Kwan skated after Cohen and not only took Sasha's three 1st place ordinals, but added still another one. Sasha didn't have any 3/3s last season (she never attempted any after Worlds 2003, where she landed a 3Z3T then bombed on a spin and a solo 3T). Robin wanted Sasha to work on 3/3s but Sasha didn't think she needed one to beat Arakawa, since she'd been beating her all through the GP Season.

    What Sasha said was all she needed was one more triple, and that's just plain bunk. She was so stiff and rigid in her FS and skated without expression or feeling of any kind in one of the flattest performances I've ever seen from her. Her performance contrasted poorly with both Arakawa's spirited skate and Kwan's passionate one.

    Sasha also seemed to have overlooked her problems on two jumps: bobbling the opening 3Z combo, and popping her final jump. Arakawa and Kwan both skated clean, something Sasha seems constitutionally incapable of doing in the FS at a major event.
    I didn't claim that Cohen had 3/3 combos, but that she had combos with triples in them. If she were able to get three -- 1/3 -- first place ordinals from Arakawa with that performance, throwing in a triple at the end, or a triple at the end of a combinationation makes it plausible that she could have picked up two more. Under 6.0, what you did for me lately -- i.e., the last 30 seconds -- counts more than under CoP.

    Kwan may have come along and taken all of Cohen's first place ordinals, but that doesn't mean that Cohen wouldn't have beaten Arakawa with another triple.

    I don't think that this would have been good -- I though it was criminal that Cohen or Kwan got a single first-place ordinal from Arakawa -- but that doesn't mean she was crazy to think this could have happened.

  5. #50
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    902

    Hmmmmm.......

    I think it would have been more professional of Robin not to say anything. I don't agree that Sasha needed to stretch herself even further. She was having too many problems with her jump technique and needed to work on her basics again. Her Nutcracker is a very nice program and nicely choreographed. Sasha has a strong program if Nicks can help her fix her jump issues and her confidence issues. Having said that, some of this is Sasha's lack of conditioning and committment to doing what she needs to do-train. I also think her flexibility works against her when she lands her jumps. I still think returning to John Nicks was the right thing to do.

  6. #51
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    2,051
    This type of comment isn't new. I read somewhere that, after Olys, Sasha was reported as saying that if she had one more triple, she might have won (or at least medaled). Yet, Sasha still ignores the direction of two more experienced coaches (TAT, RW) in her training, and, still fails to skate cleanly. IMHO, she is spending too much time on "if only ..." and not enough time listening. There are plenty of "if only"s in skating -- "if only" there had been no streaker in Dortmund, would Kwan have gotten any 6.0's (and first place ordinals), or would she have attempted a 3/3 are only a few. The "if only"s are great for fan speculation, but that's it.

  7. #52
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,549
    I agree to a point that "if only" or "what if" situations are good for fan speculation and predictions. But when a skater starts to think like that, I think that's when you run into trouble. Looks like she hasn't found the right formula yet, and it's a question now whether she ever will.

  8. #53
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,328
    Quote Originally Posted by millie
    Probably if Sasha had a Corvette and gave Phil rides to free basketball games, he would say good things about her, too.
    I think you're on to something here, Millie. In the PR business, a little "face time" never hurts!

    Quote Originally Posted by sk8m8
    For those of you that think that Robin was harsh or mean about Sasha...please remember that reporters have ALL editorial control and rarely give subjects permission to read or control what is printed or broadcast. Robin may have said a good deal more, and even more favorable things about Sasha, but the author may have cut or omitted some of them for the sake of article length or (god forbid) his own personal "editorial viewpoint." One should not only keep this in mind for this article, but for ALL articles. Being "factual" and "telling the whole story" are two seperate things.
    You beat me to the punch making that point, Sk8m8. That's exactly right. No doubt everything Robin Wagner said was accurately quoted. Still, it is the columnist that selects and spins things to suit the predetermined and one-dimensional slant of the story.

    Robin wasn't the one who quoted from Ovid, after all.

    Similarly, Hersh's article about Michelle at the basketball game, cute as it was, presented Michelle pretty much as a fluff-head with no deeper interests than keeping up with celebrity gossip.

    Well, OK. There are other things that he could have written, but that was the slant that article took. It sells papers.

    Mathman.

  9. #54
    What would Brian Boitano do?
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    248
    Interesting article. Hearing from a coach at much length is a rarity.

    Controversy and rivalry are generally believed to fuel this sport. (What about excellence and surpassing beauty? Oh well.)

    All this media together is meant to build up the sport (tho I think it tears it down at the same time). The buildup feeds into a small cadre of fans who take untenably biased positions- the Kwanatics and the Sashcists- and make this media-built circus real.

    In the end, I just want to see some great skating, from everybody. True, I have opinions on who's most capable, but we shall see (for the most part- there's always the "wuzrobbed" discussion to keep the fires burning).

    Truly, none of this (like most sport and entertainment news) deserves anything but the merest speck of coverage. It might as well be E! True Hollywood Story on the Hilton Sisters! But as long as they're going to put that dreck on, we ought to get a few words about skating.

    Interesting to me that really only a handful of people control much of the spin and information coming from skating. Hersh and Brennan, but who else? ABC doesn't get into the nitty gritty much. Rumor flourishes when info is that controlled.

  10. #55
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,356
    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan
    This type of comment isn't new. I read somewhere that, after Olys, Sasha was reported as saying that if she had one more triple, she might have won (or at least medaled). Yet, Sasha still ignores the direction of two more experienced coaches (TAT, RW) in her training, and, still fails to skate cleanly. IMHO, she is spending too much time on "if only ..." and not enough time listening. There are plenty of "if only"s in skating -- "if only" there had been no streaker in Dortmund, would Kwan have gotten any 6.0's (and first place ordinals), or would she have attempted a 3/3 are only a few. The "if only"s are great for fan speculation, but that's it.
    ITA.

    But if so many of her diehard fans saying the "if only ...", media saying "if only ...", her friends saying "if only ...", her family member (OK I'm a little strech here) saying "if only ....". How could she not thinking "if only ...."?

  11. #56
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8
    While I agree that Sasha can quiet all criticism and speculation by finally skating up to her capabilities at Nationals this year, I don't see what there is to feel sorry for her about.

  12. #57
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,549
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosman401
    I don't see what there is to feel sorry for her about.
    I don't either. In a way, she brought all this upon herself IMO.

  13. #58
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    97
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    I don't either. In a way, she brought all this upon herself IMO.
    I've been trying really hard to stay out of this thread, because I am a Sasha fan, but this comment really bothered me.

    I really don't think that's fair. I mean, we're getting one person's opinion, and you have to look at the source. It's a coach who Sasha left, and, apparantly, it was not an amicable parting.

    I don't know Sasha. And I'm not going to say that she's this sweet, loving person, because I have no way of knowing that. (And, I would tend to doubt it, for strong competitors are not sweet people). However, other than these comments from Robin, I also have no justification for thinking she's a *****.

    All I know, is we're only hearing one side of the argument. And regardless of whether or not she "brought it on herself" as you put it, it still mustn't feel that good to be bashed by a former friend in the newspaper.

  14. #59
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    California
    Posts
    29
    "In my mind, success for Sasha meant not second or third but being a champion," Wagner said.
    "I was concerned I couldn't get Sasha to agree with what I felt needed to be done," Wagner said Monday.
    "She is a magnificent skater with magnificent artistic qualities, but why not push yourself?" Wagner said. "Why not do a new spiral sequence, a triple-triple (jump) combination, something challenging musically?
    "You can do those things only if you are willing to accept mental and physical discomfort on a daily basis. It is very difficult for Sasha to get out of her comfort zone."
    "Talent, greatness and potential sometimes cause an athlete to become complacent," Wagner said. "Sasha was becoming complacent. If you're not No. 1, you can't go into a holding pattern."
    "I could not get Sasha to really understand and commit to the training program I felt she needed to execute if she wanted to improve," Wagner said. "She said yes to everything we discussed last December, but when it came down to actually doing it, I don't think she believed it in her heart."
    "I like Sasha very much, and I hope she gets to be a champion," Wagner said. "It was frustrating and disappointing we couldn't do it together."


    I just wanted to sort out what Hersh wrote and Wagner said. While reading this, it didn't seem like Robin was that harsh on Sasha, but that's my p.o.v..

  15. #60
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    2,802

    The Catch 22...

    Elite athletes in all sports want media attention - it's good for them and it promotes them. Sometimes even negative media promotion promotes them in their sport. It comes with the territory.

    I am nobody's Uber Fan including Sasha's, or Michelle's, etc. "Sweet and Loving" just isn't a quality that would make any elite international athlete successful. Taking a hard and honest look at your shortcomings, and developing a firm strategy through training to improve is what gives elite athletes the opportunity to move up.

    So...it doesn't matter what Robin has to say, or what Sasha has to say, or what Nicks or anyone else has to say. It's all about what Sasha DOES!

    And given her raw talent, I am sitting in my armchair hoping she makes wise and tough decisions for herself, and ignores the hoopla.

    DG

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Cohen's success tinged with uncertainty (article re.Nicks & Cohen)
    By R.D. in forum 2004-05 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 03-28-2005, 08:51 PM
  2. Hersh Article- Kwan: A Master's Touch (with interesting Cohen quote)
    By R.D. in forum 2004-05 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-18-2005, 10:40 AM
  3. New Hersh article on Kwan
    By nymkfan51 in forum 2003-04 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 01-05-2004, 07:22 AM
  4. Hersh SA article (MK centered)
    By ltlpearl in forum 2003-04 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 10-26-2003, 04:12 PM
  5. Wash. Post Article on Sasha
    By sk8cynic in forum 2002-03 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-13-2003, 09:41 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •