Pairs Free Skate

sk8fanconvert · Jan 16, 2005

O & L were very slow on their final footwork pass. He'd been sick I guess a week before according to the paper. In practices he often looked totally spent after a lift or a difficult sequence. I & B had better speed throughout, and their footwork at the end was better executed. They just didn't execute the other elements, particularly that botched lift.

JonnyCoop · Jan 16, 2005

thisthingcalledlove said:
I'm probably going to get shot for this, but I thought Garrett was just too stiff, especially in the final footwork sequence. He looked like he wasn't attacking the program. It looked more like he was fighting the movement, rather than MOVING. Granted, I am glad they finally skated clean and won, but he needs to work with a modern dance teacher or something...someone who'll help him move.

Inoue and Baldwin's FS music needs to be RECUT. I don't think the Intermezzo fit in the middle as the slow section. There are TONS of TransSiberian Orchestra pieces that would've fit better in that middle section. The Mozart section in the end sounds horrible...but, I do think they had more charisma and are more natural with their movement than Orsher and Lucash.

*ducks*

Totally agree. I'd've given 1st to I/B despite the mistakes; O/L may have been clean, but they still had more than their share of klunky moments. And if the judges can give 3rd to Hinzmann & Parchem, I can certainly give 1st to Inoue & Baldwin. It's really scary that Pairs in this country has reached a point where Orscher & Lucash's performance was raved about to the extent it was by Dick & Peggy.

Doggygirl · Jan 16, 2005

Ttcl...

I'll join you on the shooting range. I wish they had shown the top 3 junior pairs. I have no idea what they do because I've never seen them. But I'm far more interested in what the future holds than what the present holds right now.

DG

sk8fanconvert · Jan 16, 2005

lulu said:
I would have loved to see D&H end up higher than 6th. On paper, it seemed as if they should have been higher. But, at the same time, their SP didn't seem as solid as they're Grand Prix SPs. So maybe they we're having some "quality" issues with their LP? I would love to see them come back next year and end up on the podium.

Were H&P's unision/stroking/speed/edging that good to provide them a cushion with their mistakes? Obviously, there is more to skating besides just landing the jumps.Peter C. mentioned their stroking, I believe during the K&C, to explain why they got their marks. I know things look different live, but on paper and on TV, it was a little bit suprising.

D&H: On their long program, she skated clean, but he missed his jumps- doubled one, stepped out of one, I believe. They also had a rough final lift. it's usually really great (I'm a fan), but they almost came to a stop going into it. They executed it, but without flow. She pulled out of singles to practice for the LP. With coaching stability and more focus, I still think they will be one of the top pairs.

H&P vs. E&L: Their "stroking"? I can't wait to watch this on TV and hear the commentary. The judges pulled those marks out of their ---. I'm still so mad about this I could spit. Nothing against H&P, but they just didn't do it. Actually, they bombed! We all felt so sorry for them (until we saw the marks, then we were just mad at the judges)
I saw a bit of the pairs final and the ladies final here in Portland b/c it was tape delayed, but I missed H&P on TV. I guess they didn't show E&L? Too bad, cause the arena went nuts, cheering them, then booing the marks.

sk8fanconvert · Jan 16, 2005

JonnyCoop said:
Totally agree. I'd've given 1st to I/B despite the mistakes; O/L may have been clean, but they still had more than their share of klunky moments. And if the judges can give 3rd to Hinzmann & Parchem, I can certainly give 1st to Inoue & Baldwin. It's really scary that Pairs in this country has reached a point where Orscher & Lucash's performance was raved about to the extent it was by Dick & Peggy.

I think you should look again at that botched lift that I & B did. They covered it well, but it was supposed to be completely different. She never got up into position, then her leg smacked him in the face! :rofl:

No, I can't see giving it to them with that and the other mistakes, though I called it a close 2nd watching in the arena, mainly b/c their speed was so much better, particularly through that last footwork.

Yeah, based on the judges marks for H&P, you can do any ---- thing you want!! Go for it!!

sk8fanconvert · Jan 16, 2005

Doggygirl said:
I'll join you on the shooting range. I wish they had shown the top 3 junior pairs. I have no idea what they do because I've never seen them. But I'm far more interested in what the future holds than what the present holds right now.

DG

We watched the junior pairs practice, and it wasn't half bad. One pair is doing a triple twist that matches any senior pair. McLaughlin and Burgess. She's tiny and he's huge (9 yr age difference).

sk8fanconvert · Jan 16, 2005

lulu said:
Besides O&L and I&B, who seemed solidly 1/2, there seemed to a lot of different opinions between posters and the judges over what order 3-6 should have been in.

I would have loved to see D&H end up higher than 6th. On paper, it seemed as if they should have been higher. But, at the same time, their SP didn't seem as solid as they're Grand Prix SPs. So maybe they we're having some "quality" issues with their LP? I would love to see them come back next year and end up on the podium.

Were H&P's unision/stroking/speed/edging that good to provide them a cushion with their mistakes? Obviously, there is more to skating besides just landing the jumps.Peter C. mentioned their stroking, I believe during the K&C, to explain why they got their marks. I know things look different live, but on paper and on TV, it was a little bit suprising.

Did they show anything but the "top" three on TV? Did they show poor Marci Hinzmann falling when she took her final bow? I can't wait to get home and see the tapes. Shame on ABC if they didn't show Evora and Ladwig and all of us booing; face the controversy head on!

brenlynn · Jan 16, 2005

thisthingcalledlove said:
I'm probably going to get shot for this, but I thought Garrett was just too stiff, especially in the final footwork sequence. He looked like he wasn't attacking the program. It looked more like he was fighting the movement, rather than MOVING. Granted, I am glad they finally skated clean and won, but he needs to work with a modern dance teacher or something...someone who'll help him move.

Half of the reason Garrett was so stiff was because he was ill. They were off the ice the days leading up to their departure to Portland, he could barely stand. From the look on his face at the end of their LP, I'd say the reason he wasn't attacking the footwork was because he looked like death. He does do ballet, I am almost certain, so I know he is working on getting everything down. He works really hard at what he does, and he loves it. I couldn't be more proud of him for pulling through both programs and skating the way he did knowing how he felt before they left.

To say I&B should have won over them is a mockery. Katie and Garrett outskated them in both portions, I think it was clearly shown by their straight 1st place ordinals for their LP. The SP was a little closer, but Katie and Garrett owned the LP without a doubt.

As far as Katie and Garrett having clunky moments, I can think of one... their footwork. Their 3twist was beautifully done as well. Their lifts were so-so, but that is also because of Garrett's sickness, he couldn't even lift her before they left for Portland.

d12p · Jan 16, 2005

How can any of you suggest that I/B outskated O/L? That is insane, did you watch it?

I/B did not complete any sbs jumps other than the double axels. The lutz and toe sbs were both botched. She stepped out of the first throw, and the second was unremarkable. Also that lift failed in the middle of the program and is finished rather sloppily.

O/L were excellent. The only mistake was the 2 foot landing on the second sbs triple toes on Lucash's behalf, but their throws were sensational. The really did a great program for anyone, not just an American team. They did look winded at the end and the footwork was a little slow (I/B had better footwork by far), but they so outclassed the rest of the teams. A throw triple flip is very rare and the one O/L did was magnificent. Hopefully they skate even better at Worlds.

H/P were overmarked, that was moronic. I really think their skating is atrocious. He doesn't finish anything and their extension (or his) is nonexistent. They were really, really bad, they shouldn't have been shown on television.

I'm surprised about D/H and V/K, they both could have done well this year. Too bad.

thisthingcalledlove · Jan 16, 2005

To all O/L fans

I merely stated that Garrett needs to see a modern dance teacher. He was moving against the music.

They remind me of a young Woetzel and Steuer. Maybe if they had chosen music that didn't ask for snap movements, they would've looked better. The crispness of the Saint-Saens piece doesn't go well with stiffness. I'm probably the only one who feels this way, but as I was watching last night, it looked like Garrett was going to fall over during their footwork sequence. Maybe it was the illness, but he's looked that way when he's skated healthy. Then again, people once called Shen and Zhao stiff, and look what happened there.

Bottom line- to all pairs: Select music which highlights your moves, and hides your shortcomings. I finally understand why Michkoutienok and Dmitriev used passionate music- quiet music wasn't their forte, just as crisp music isn't this pair's forte (yet...they may become one of the more artistic teams out there in the future)

nicole_l · Jan 16, 2005

O&L's throw triple flip was huge! Honestly, I think their throws can rival the Chinese. It's everything else that needs to be worked on.
Anyway, I was impressed.

Mathman · Jan 16, 2005

sk8fanconvert said:
Did they show anything but the "top" three on TV? Did they show poor Marci Hinzmann falling when she took her final bow? I can't wait to get home and see the tapes. Shame on ABC if they didn't show Evora and Ladwig and all of us booing; face the controversy head on!

They showed only the top three. On TV, to me at least, Orscher and Lucash looked spectacular. Hinzmann and Parchem were absolutely attrocious. I lost track of how many times she fell. I couldn't believe they got scores in the 5's.

I said a silent prayer thanking ABC, if this was the third place team, thank you for not showing any of the others. Now I wish I could have seen the others.

Mathman

rain · Jan 16, 2005

Here's an opinion from a Canadian who sees generally very little of the U.S. pairs. Clearly Inoue and Baldwin were the overall class of the field, IMO, in spite of their technical glitches that did *rightfully* cost them the gold medal. Orscher and Lucash are not of the same quality overall, though did deserve the win. Their lifts look heavy and clumsy, they do not have great speed over the ice and always look like they're working - really hard. Good throws, yes, but that is really their only outstanding technical feature. Inoue and Baldwin on the other hand float effortlessly. They look like the team that can compete internationally, in spite of a few weak spots. As I said, I don't dispute the results as I'm a big believer that no matter how great a skater you are, you have to be judged on your performance of the night, but for my money, Inoue and Baldwin are the team to watch.

RealtorGal · Jan 16, 2005

nicole_l said:
O&L's throw triple flip was huge! Honestly, I think their throws can rival the Chinese. It's everything else that needs to be worked on.
Anyway, I was impressed.

I agree. :agree: It was HUGE!

RealtorGal · Jan 16, 2005

O/L deserved the win. I/B, although a classier pair, made too many mistakes to deserve the title last evening. We'll see how things go at Worlds!

Joesitz (RIP) · Jan 16, 2005

RealtorGal said:
O/L deserved the win. I/B, although a classier pair, made too many mistakes to deserve the title last evening. We'll see how things go at Worlds!

Absolutely true, it was presentation over technical. Little mistakes in the technical take away from the 'whole package'.

Joe

Mathman · Jan 17, 2005

Today's paper reports that Marci Hinzmann has been competing all year with a torn anterior cruciate ligament in her left knee. She says it is not painful, :it's more of a stability thing."

She will need surgery and a four month recuperation period, but they have not decided when to do the surgery because they still want to do four continents if possible, and also they are first alternates for Worlds.

Mathman

brenlynn · Jan 17, 2005

Mathman said:
She will need surgery and a four month recuperation period, but they have not decided when to do the surgery because they still want to do four continents if possible, and also they are first alternates for Worlds.

Mathman

i think they should do it after 4CC. i highly doubt O/L or I/B (barring serious injury of course) would drop out of worlds. they should do it ASAP because they really need to dedicate the entire summer to preparing for the olympic season. if they wait until after worlds, that woud leave them off the ice until about july - they really need to take advantage of the entire summer of training.

sk8m8 · Jan 18, 2005

Just an opinion....I&B are the better pair, O&L won the event. I was so impressed with the improvement of both pairs from last years nationals where NO couples stood up for their entire skate through the enitire competion. I would say that I&B are probably going to attempt to stay competitive through the Olympics and then retire. Renea is a med school student that put her studies on hold to skate with John ( they are a real life couple and I think it shows in the way they relate to each other on the ice). I think that O&L have all the elements to be in the top 5 or even medal at some point in their career if they continue the great improvement. As for H&P, I think they are mismatched, however only they can really make that decision. Also not impressed with either of the Vise girls parnters. Though they are both lovely skaters, I think they are mismatched. Just a few ramblings.

Skatefan4 · Jan 20, 2005

other senior pairs

does anyone have any notes on the other pairs in the event besides the top 5, i saw only what they showed on tv...what did people think about some of the lower pairs, any potential there for the future of US pairs? thanks

Pairs Free Skate

sk8fanconvert

JonnyCoop

Doggygirl

sk8fanconvert

sk8fanconvert

sk8fanconvert

sk8fanconvert

brenlynn

d12p

thisthingcalledlove

nicole_l

Mathman

rain

RealtorGal

RealtorGal

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

brenlynn

sk8m8

Skatefan4

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