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Thread: Ladies LP - if you saw it on TV or Live....

  1. #1
    Hopeless fan Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Ladies LP - if you saw it on TV or Live....

    Well, Kimmie sure made a statement with that 3 Axel!! Barely hung on, but got it. She also seemed very solid on all her other jumps - including throwing that 3-2-2 at the end. That's encouraging for the future. I think she has the makings of a very nice presentation style, but still has a ways to go. But she's only 15, and if she can stay injury free she's certainly going to be a player.

    Even though BB had a couple minor problems, I sort of thought her overall performance was ahead of Kimmie. It would be interesting to know how these performances would have been scored under COP. I just think BB is overall more polished, and had better spirals, footwork, etc. than Kimmie. But...doesn't really matter. Both of these ladies are exciting to watch knowing they should continue to develop and be our post Olympic year hopefuls. (or who knows...maybe our current Oly hopefuls!)

    I felt bad for Jenny, but at least she didn't totally blow it and will probably be on the World team. I think her performance was better here than at the earlier events, so hopefully she can pull it together a bit more for Worlds, assuming she makes the team.

    Katy. I'm not sure I get the "star quality" everyone raves about, but of course she had so much trouble in her program, how would you see it anyway.

    Sasha, Sasha, Sasha. I so badly wanted her to have a stand out performance, and then let the chips fall where they may. All in all, I don't think it mattered in terms of the placements here. So long as Michelle stayed off her butt, which she did, under 6.0 with the record on the line and all that, I suspect things would still have turned out just as they did. And that's no discredit to Michelle at all - more a comment on the 6.0 system and the realities of how things work. So...I hope Sasha just takes this in stride and focuses on her OWN skating, and figuring out what it will take mentally to skate on competition ice like she does in practice.

    Michelle - I'm glad she put down a solid (if not stellar) performance and won. My thoughts are not so much about this comp, which she clearly won but about how she will fare under COP internationally. I guess we'll find out a worlds. I LOVED her SP. I thought the music suited her, and she took advantage of the highs and lows of the music within her choreography. I've definitely decided that in my opinion, I don't like Bolero as a choice. The music is just to much the same all the way through, so there just isn't the dramatic opportunity for Michelle to really showcase her spirals and footwork as she has been able to do so successfully with other programs. I'm also still concerned about too much just plain stroking early in the program between the jumps. But I know Michelle has other plans in mind for World's. And as she herself said, she was uptight tonight so maybe we still haven't seen anything close to what this program can ultimately be.

    I must say that for me, the SP's for ladies were a bit more exciting than the LP's turned out to be. With the noteable exception of that 3A.

    Edited to add: I can't wait to hear not only other opinions / observations from the TV broadcast, but also the opinions and observations from rinkside. While I have to wait another year to attend one of these comps live, I've developed a healthy respect for the fact that many things appear different live v. on TV. Can't wait to check that out first hand.

    DG
    Last edited by Doggygirl; 01-15-2005 at 11:44 PM.

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    This time the pressure is clearly on Michelle. Sasha didn't have the favorite in this competition at all so I thought she might hold it together.

    I'm quite sure Worlds will be different for Michelle. I don't know if she will win but I have a feeling she will be much more successful with her skating there. She's not a favorite to win the title.

  3. #3
    Figure Skating Fan Hikaru's Avatar
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    Weel I can't wait to see the competition to add my thoughts, but that unfortunately won't be until the end of the month. However I have some thoughts on what I've read this past couple of days.


    Kimmie is defo making a statment with her jumps, so she has a good future, but in that future under CoP we'll need to see the overall picture with spirals, spins, crossovers and stroking. I cannot say how she does them since I haven't seen her, so I won't get on that.

    I think Sasha has finally come to the point, for the interviews I've read so far and all, that she is going to put her enjoyment for skating over everything else. As an athlete, she says "sure I want to win, like everyone else wants to win", but I think she is understanding that the person she needs to turn to to do that is herself. She's a fantastic skater, bad season for her with all the illness and back injury, but she's strong, so she will try her best at worlds I'm sure, and that should be enough for her. She has a beautiful program and music, and she can get the best out of it, if she sets her mind up to the task.

    Michelle is the rock here. She has the endurance that any athlete would want to keep on going and going. Now she only needs to get ready not so much for worlds, but for CoP. About her Bolero, I do love the music. It is hard to skate. It reminds me a little of Massenet's "Meditation" from Thäis, not for the music itself, mind you, but because both of them are scores difficult to skate, since they are very repetitive. These type of music requeres one heck of a presentation, demands that the skater puts everything they have to keep the audience interested, since the repetitiveness of the music might get you bored, and this attitude has to be held from the beginning till the end of the music. When I saw it at marshall's it lacked of that extra spark. I want to compare it with Nationals, to see how it was. But I'm sure Michelle and Rafael will get to that.


    I have heard so many props for BB that I want to see her skate. Very intrigued by her HP music in the short. I've heard she made a couple of mistakes but that overall she looks lovely... reminds me of Sasha, but I'll wait to see her to make my final opinion.

  4. #4
    Hopeless fan Doggygirl's Avatar
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    The youngsters...

    Actually, Kimmie has more rudimentary (very) similarities to Sasha much more so than BB does. Kimmie has that very straight and good posture, and a very slender, leggy / army kind of build. Of course she is nowhere NEAR Sasha's level, but from a style perspective from what I've seen on TV, they are more compareable IMO.

    BB is a power skater. She's got a shorter, more muscular athletic looking build, and I'll be interested to hear more from people who where at the comp about her speed and how everything looked live. But on TV, she looked fast, powerful, totally energetic. A very different skater style wise than Kimmie.

    This is so fun to talk about. I'll be playing back the Tivo for days. Gotta do somethinhg between now and worlds, right?

    DG

  5. #5
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    Michelle seems to often skate more effectively when she's not favored to win. The underdog has little to lose and much to gain................42

  6. #6
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    I only saw the ABC and was quite thrill of seeing the top 5 lady short programs tonight, even if TV coverage never lives up to the standard it should coming from the massive fan response.

    Bebe's long and short: OMG! I now adore her. She has now feel the void that american ladies were missing Nuff'said!

    Sasha: She should take up yoga or something.... To talk to her inner self!

    Kimmie: I'm still debating over the cheated axel or not but powerful girl, good skating, long legs. Not here to debate over her placement. Happy for the her and the podium.

    Jenny: Love her, not a fan of her program, hope she has good programs if she should make it worlds...

    Michelle: Mixed up feeling about it, good raw meat in the program, she just need to cook it a bit before Worlds. We all know, she's not probably going but 4CC would be a great place to test out her program under COP before Worlds.

  7. #7
    I keep on fallin' for Kwan
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    SPITE: Ignore this part, because this is SOMEWHAT spiteful towards Kimmie Meissner and the other young'uns. She's a great skater, but I just cannot stand her. Ugh. Maybe it's the "frilliness and girlyness and angelic innocence" she has. Same with Katy Taylor and those other so called "young guns". It was cool she did the triple axel but yeah okay whatever. But she is still so juniorish as Michael Weiss would say if he was competing at the ladies event. I'm happy for her to be at the podium, a bronze medal. But I'm even more happier she's not going to Worlds. She has a good future, except I'm talking about spite here. Had she and Katy Taylor and those other 10 year olds, I mean, 15 YEAR OLDS did not upgrade to the senior level, perhaps Amber Corwin and/or Angela Nikodinov would make the World team. These kids are definitely stumbling blocks for Amber and Angela to make the world team or the podium at least. And I was SO wanting both Angela and Amber to go to Worlds. END SPITE

    Sasha: No matter how many times she changes coaches, she will still have these crazy inconsistencies during Nationals. It's not the coach or the training base, Sasha, it's YOU that you have to put determination on. I love her pink dress though even though I HATE the color pink.

    Jenny: Love the program, love her as well. Glad she's going to Worlds. I want to see my tape over again to see if that heart thing she did on the ice would show.

    Michelle: My girl kicks *** end of story.

  8. #8
    Sal-Kowabunga!
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    Lotta,

    Spite or not, you can definitely see the reasoning of the coaches and skaters coming up to nationals this year. After all, next year is the Olympics and the past three ladies OGM has been a teenager.....Oksana, Tara and Sarah. And you better believe those youngsters have dreams of being the next one.

    As for Kimmie, she had absolutely NOTHING to lose going for the triple axel. Because she would be ineligible for this year's world competition, she could just go for the triple and get her face and name out in front before the Olympic season begins. Even if she'd fallen on it, she was unlikely to fall out of the top six and I'm willing to bet that she and her coach really want a chance for international experience at the senior level so next year she wouldn't be passed over for the Olympic team. Watch, although some might be tempted to continue to compete at the junior GP circuit, Kimmie will go for the senior competitions.

    But, of course, she will go to junior worlds. Probably with Bebe Liang and maybe Katy Taylor.

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    Kimmie landed all her jumps but there was nothing else in her program. I have to question her high presentation marks, especially over Bebe Liang, who had a more complete program, even with one major mistake. However, I hand it to Kimmie for staying cool and getting it done. She is going to be a force in the future, not because she is brave enough to go for a 3A in a major competition but because she is so consistent. She reminds me of a very young Michelle (age 13 or so). I am not sure that triple axel was completed. She landed it way before she had completed the rotation. Did they actually ratify it? Whether it was ratified or not, it was a pretty valiant attempt.

    I really thought Sasha skated quite well, except for a slight hand down on one jump and a fall on the second triple lutz. She recovered quite well. Her marks seemed about right. Her misfortune is that she has to compete against Michelle Kwan at every national. She cannot afford to have a less than perfect (a small mistake or two may be OK) performance. Under COP though we may see different results.

    I had my fingers crossed for Michelle. I was counting every jump she landed and felt good, until she doubled the second triple lutz. Not a major problem (Sasha should learn to double a jump instead of falling on it), but the late ending was not good. I think the earlier ending worked better for her. I have to say though that Bolero is not a great music for a singles program. It is monotonous, which makes it much harder to introduce highs and lows, excitement, etc. in it. I am glad Michelle is skating to it in a pre-Olympic year. I hope she finds something more suitable for the Olympic season. Overall it was a good performance but not great. Those 6.0's were generous, but the bottom line is she delivered when she had to. That is why she is a nine time US national champion. These days we don't see that many repeat champions, so this is really mind boggling.

    Katy had a rough time out there, but she is young and she will be back. Jenny recovered after a couple of mistakes, but it was clear she was unhappy with that performance. She is a lovely skater but I don't see her as championship material. IMO the championship material is Kimmie, and perhaps Bebe and Emily- all in the future. However, if Kimmie makes the Olympic team next year (very likely, based on what we saw tonight), watch out everyone. She will be 16 and that is the perfect age to win the OGM.

    Vash

  10. #10
    On Edge Piel's Avatar
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    I preferred Bebe to Kimmie. Bebe has almost if not as much flexibility as Sasha but is also powerful. Often if someone is that muscular they sacrifice flexibility but not in this case. She reminds me of Elizabeth Manly.

    Katy Taylor wins the improvisation award for the "triple loop back shoot the duck". I liked her spins. If she can manage to stay on her feet she will do well. Not much personality IMO.

    Jenny's program was a little too soft and delicate. Would like to see her do something a little edgier.

    Sasha is so lovely. This is being picky but the way the muscles and bones show in her upper back looks strange to me. Hate the BC at the end, half of one cheek made an appearance. Peggy's "I can't believe that she has done this again to herself" was uncalled for (and I usually agree with PF). It's not like she caused herself to fall.

    Michelle's jumps were bigger and spins showed more variation. From the looks of what she was saying to Raphael I think that she lost count during that monotonous music causing the ending to go over.

    I thought Bebe had the best program of the evening.

    Anyone who was there, how did Emily Hughes do?

  11. #11
    Hopeless fan Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Thanks Piel...

    I was racking my brain trying to think of another skater BB reminds me of - Elizabeth Manley is a great comparitive. Similar body type and similar speed, attack, power, etc. I can't wait to see all these youngsters (hopefully they all stay injury free!) live at nationals next year.

    DG

  12. #12
    Sal-Kowabunga!
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    Vash & Piel & DG,

    I really liked Bebe's performance in both SP and LP and felt she was undermarked. And speaking of undermarked, even though we didn't get to see her long program, Emily Hughes moved up nicely at the end of the day.

  13. #13
    Hopeless fan Doggygirl's Avatar
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    I would have loved to see Emily's LP. I definitely count her "in" the younger crowd of the US future. She seemed so joyful and in "attack" mode with her SP.


    DG

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    Great comments from everyone. Am anxious to hear from those who were there live. Uh, hmm...you know what I mean, lol.

    First and foremost, I'm thrilled Michelle won and tied Maribel Vinson Owen's record. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Michelle has fallen on a jump at Nationals since 1997. In the era of triple jumps, that makes her ninth US championship all the more extraordinary -- taking nothing away from Vinson Owen, of course. Although "Bolero" still hasn't come together for me as a program and her performance was slightly off, especially considering how she's blown the top off the arena at virtually every Nationals since '98, overall (jumps, spins, edging, presentation, everything) I thought it was the most sophisticated and well-performed program of the night. I also LOVED her costume. On Michelle, for this program, I thought it worked beautifully.

    Slightly off-topic and about the future, not this event: Not to gripe on such a great night, but I do wish Michelle would forget about doing either homage programs, such as "Bolero," or programs using music other well-known skaters have already used, such as "Tosca" (Irina) and "The Feeling Begins" (Oksana Baiul and Grishuk & Platov). I think Michelle is in such a great position to create classics of her own, using music other skaters haven't. There's certainly enough great music out there. It's fine to do an occasional homage program, but for example, there is simply NO "Salomé" or "Lyra Angelica" other than Michelle's (noting Lori Nichol's choreography). I'd just love to see Michelle and Morozov create some uniquely Michelle LPs for her sophisticated and mature period.

    Felt bad Sasha had the hands down and the fall on two jumps, but was not surprised. Though I was hoping her more subdued SP was an indication that she and Nicks had planned it so she didn't "blow her wad" on the short and have nothing but nerves left for the long, I had been concerned by the quality of her jumps in the short. The one thing I thought really did improve after she started working with Wagner was her jump technique. At last year's Nats and Worlds, her landings were much cleaner and more solid. It will be interesting, or more of the same, to see how she does at Worlds after she's had a chance to settle back into being in SoCal and with Nicks. Maybe an up-and-comer like Meissner will give her the incentive to get her jump technique down pat. I think she's capable because I've seen her do it, but I think it's something she's going to have to dig down deep to find and keep consistent.

    As for whether she's decided to emphasize skating for her own enjoyment over being "#1," it's an interesting question. In one of the articles or interviews about the break-up with Robin Wagner, either Sasha or Nicks said that Sasha had lost her confidence with Robin. Maybe the goal for these Nats was for her to do well enough to make the World team and enjoy herself, rather than concentrating on trying to win. Ironically, this was the only LP in which Michelle left a slight opening, though Sasha would have had to hit every jump perfectly and skate with magic in order to win. At least Sasha skated with beautiful flow and expression, instead of skating tight and flat, which she's done the past two years at Nationals.

    I had to laugh at her costume, though. I don't know how many times I've read about how both she and John Nicks hate the whole image of female figure skaters as "little girls in pink dresses." So what does Sasha do but skate to "The Nutcracker" in the freakin' pinkiest pink dress I've ever seen. I hope it was a private joke between Sasha and Nicks. And I agree that Peggy's comment, "She's done it to herself again" was unnecessarily harsh. Those comments are for Christine Brennan and Phil Hersh to make today in their reviews.

    Speaking of sophisticated programs, Sasha's "Nutcracker," though suited to her balletic style and containing difficult elements, seemed "juniorish" to me. Tarasova's black-and-white "Swan Lake" had, IMO, some real depth to it, but "Nutcracker" seemed to be about not much more than skating pretty. ZZzzzzzz. Please, somebody, steal every hackneyed piece of music Sasha might get to and replace them with pieces that either a hundred other skaters haven't already used or that make me think of cheap chocolate bon-bons. Examples of such music are for another thread, but I got a million of 'em.

    ZOWIE re Kimmie Meissner's jumps! And while I did enjoy a lot of her overall skating, I agree with those who feel BB Liang was stronger and more interesting in all her other elements and performance skills. However, I also get tired of great 15-year-olds coming on the scene and people only talking about their potential. I found Kimmie to be a lovely and amazing skater right now. Sure she doesn't have it all, but it's kind of like the joy of watching young deer or colts revel in what they can do, with the age-appropriate movement being endearing. Anyway, loved how she threw that 3/2/2 in at the end, not to mention the 3Axel. She had nothing to lose so she went for it. Good for her. Who knows what the future holds but I like her already, just as she is.

    But BB Liang, who is a year older and has more competitive experience, was the real new jewel of the evening for me. What a dynamo! Katy Taylor didn't do much for me. She still skates like a kid, whereas Liang skates like a young woman. Meissner is somewhere in between, though you can't argue with those jumps. Let's just hope she doesn't have a six-inch growth spurt over the summer.

    Not Jenny's night, but not bad either considering the awful season she's had. Plus she'll be going to Worlds (I assume), giving her a chance to improve on her 18th place finish last year. BTW, hotties certainly run in the Kirk family. Anybody know if Jenny's dad is dating anybody?

    TOTALLY off topic, but did anyone else think the Nationals trophy looked like the Jetson's house? Seriously, I think the trophy is a great addition. It's just that I kept expecting to see George Jetson flying around it in a tiny flying car.

    Rgirl

    NOTE RE SUNDAY'S (TODAY'S) "GOOD MORNING AMERICA" ON ABC: Michelle is scheduled for an interview, so don't forget to watch or tape it. It's on from 8:00 AM to 9:00 AM EST. Check your local listings.

    Also the exhibitions next Sunday 10:30 AM PST/ 1:30 PM EST on ABC.

  15. #15
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    I was racking my brain trying to think of another skater BB reminds me of - Elizabeth Manley is a great comparitive. Similar body type and similar speed, attack, power, etc. I can't wait to see all these youngsters (hopefully they all stay injury free!) live at nationals next year.
    Doggy.....Bebe reminds me a lot of Midori Ito......maybe that's who you were thinking of..........

    Did Katy go to the "Tara Lipinski School of Landing Jumps?" Her runouts are identical to Tara's.......arms straight out at the side as if she were a tight-rope walker........and, they are both from Sugarland........ 42
    Last edited by show 42; 01-16-2005 at 12:01 PM.

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