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Thread: Now that it's over...the Bolero LP

  1. #1
    Keeper of Bab's Death Stare... nubka's Avatar
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    Question Now that it's over...the Bolero LP

    Now that we have seen Michelle's performance tonight in the Bolero LP, does anyone here think that Sasha could have taken the gold medal IF... she had skated a clean LP? I honestly don't know... I did feel that Sasha's LP had more content to it.

    Out of both of Kwan's programs, I definately liked her SP best (the music was sooo beautiful and so was the choreography.) Bolero seemed kind of empty.

    I know the Nutcracker has been used a lot through the years, but I thought that the music really suited Sasha.

  2. #2
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    I absolutely think that Sasha's program was strong enough to have taken the title away from Michelle tonight, if she had skated cleanly and if she had skated last..........those two factors helped to make the difference........just my opinion.....42

  3. #3
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    Bolero

    let me go ahead and throw my 2 cents in........ No, I don't think Sasha skating cleanly could have take the title. I have now watched Kwan's LP about 4 times now - for all the drama of Ravel's music, the choreography I find surprisingly subtle - yet dynamic. The footwook section IMO is far superior to Sasha's arm flailling. Sorry, that's how I see it. Sasha's choreography or at least her performance did not match the music! I looked specifically for Sasha to match her movement to the melody line of the pas de deux music - Tchaikovsky gives so many opportunites to phrase to the sweeping melody of the pas de deux music: the final climax of the theme comes and Sasha lets it pass before sinking into her beautiful spiral. I can only imagine the performance when she syncs that spiral to the right chord....... people in Moscow would go absolutely bonkers!

    Michelle I felt was very tied to the music, except of course when she finished late (I'd say she was thrown popping the 3z).

    Now that may be musical nit-picking but we have all seen that that kind of detail and refinement separates the talented from the champions. I am thinking of Shen and Zhao's interpretation of the pas de deux from 2003 in comparison to Sasha's - no contest for me. Sasha's spins - OMG - what can you say? Of course they are beautiful, but somehow don't add up to much in terms of emotional content. She is a beautiful skater - a doll - a cold, pretty doll.

    Jump combo for jump combo I saw that Michelle's we smoother and more dynamic. Watch Bolero again, it grew on me as I watched it; there is much packed into a subtle package.

    Anyway... Congratulations to Michelle, Sasha and Kimmy! Way to go! I really want Jenny to kick @##$ at World's and find her "voice". Wouldn't that be cool?

    Tenorguy
    Last edited by Tenorguy; 01-16-2005 at 02:54 AM.

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    GOLDEN DREAMS RealtorGal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by show 42
    I absolutely think that Sasha's program was strong enough to have taken the title away from Michelle tonight, if she had skated cleanly and if she had skated last..........those two factors helped to make the difference........just my opinion.....42
    Without a doubt she had the title in her hand and threw it away. The program was gorgeous. Should be an interesting Worlds.

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    I do like Sasha's LP. And she shown she felt the music.

    But it's hard to say. Even Sasha skated clean, got huge marks, you never know what Michelle will come out. Michelle's LP by no means of her best, either. And she never skated better when she was pushed to the corner. That's exactly what was missing from her this LP skating.
    Last edited by mzheng; 01-16-2005 at 05:16 AM.

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    Even though we have heard the Nutcracker time and time again.. I do love that piece from it.. and yes, it really does suite Sasha.. Hmmm would she have won if she had skated cleanly? Possibly? Although, Kwan's jumps do look stronger and i can tell she is moving differently to Belero.. Sasha, looks like she is skating to Swan Lake all over again.. not much change in music tempo or choreography.. Michelle, is trying something different and is taking on a new challenge..So who knows? But I do really like Michelle's SP this year.. It is a lovely program for her..

  7. #7
    In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
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    I thought Sasha overall had a much more interesting program. I have a problem with "Bolero" being used for singles programs anyway. I just don't feel that given the nature and structure of the music vs. the available motion and maneuver in singles skating, it's possible to do it justice. It worked with Torvill & Dean in part because there were TWO people out there, therefore opening up a whole new range of possibilities of movement, positions, etc. In Michelle's case, there wasn't anything at all wrong with the actual SKATING, but I just didn't really feel it tied in well with the music; it seemed to just kind of be on as background. IMO, this is a piece of music that needs to retired as well; if you have Christopher Dean choreographing it AND Michelle Kwan skating to it, and the overall effect is STILL rather lukewarm, then I can't imagine any other combination of choreographer and skater is going to be able to do any better with it.

  8. #8
    What would Brian Boitano do?
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    Tough question. I'm not crazy about either of these long programs. Not Sasha's best program, not Michelle's best program. MK's footwork was the standout for me, really amazing. I think that would tip the scales if there were two clean programs.
    I felt the use of the Nutcracker was pretty uninspired, and so was the choreography. It didn't seem to showcase her strengths.
    Using Bolero was risky, of course, but for the most part it works, MK pulled it off. It won't go down as one of her signature pieces, but it worked.

  9. #9
    Tripping on the Podium
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    No, I don't think Sasha clean could have taken the gold. Element for element, outside the jumps, I think MK has a better choreo'd program. And I don't like bolero. I think the only ones who did skate well to it was T&D, and it's not my fav program of theirs by any stretch of the imagination.

    I think both Sasha and MK will have to work really hard to sell these programs at worlds. I think the USFSA has created a bit of a problem by keeping the 6.0 when another system is in place. These skaters have had to create kind of 2 programs to compete. And neither one have competed with COPS this year.
    But the one who will be the most consistent with it, will have the best chance at being in the top 5. I don't view either one of them as the gold medalist at worlds this year. We'll see.

  10. #10
    Hopeless fan Doggygirl's Avatar
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    I really tried to keep an open mind about Bolero...

    ...ever since it was confirmed early in the season that MK would be using it. A previous poster who said "if MK and Dean can't pull it off, then it's doubtful any single skater could..." or words to that effect. ITA, and for me anyway, it's not working. I just don't think that music HELPS the skater clearly show off choreo and skills, and build dramatic moments.

    While Nutcraker is certainly used again and again and again, I think it at least is a piece that lends itself to taking advantage of dramatic moments, especially for a skater like Sasha. I love Sasha's moves, but I don't nessecarily think the choreo really connects Sasha's moves to the music for full effect.

    I liked both of their SP's MUCH better. I like the musical choices and the accomanying choreo much better. Bear in mind I'm not overly sophisticated with these things!!

    ITA that both of these ladies have a lot of work to do before Worlds.

    2 cents..

    DG

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    ITA that both of these ladies have a lot of work to do before Worlds
    Amen. I think that is what it boils down to for both of them. "Bolero" is better than "Tosca" and "Aranjuez" structure wise, IMO, but last night nerves and anxiety seemed to strip away the emotional intensity that was so needed. It was a solid skate, but it wasn't spectacular and Michelle knew that. She seemed very disappointed with herself at the end of the program. I think this is exactly what needed to happen. She has a reason to push herself and the motivation to improve is there. She is in the hunt once again.
    Sasha's "Nutcracker" is undoubtedly lovely. There are so many beautiful moments in the program, but as a whole things just didn't add up. It was a bit cold. She desparately needs to harness some of that "Malaguena" fire/emotion and put it into this program and her SP.
    I am hoping that they both will realize what needs to be done and do it. They are two of the best in the world and I really want to see them shine in chilly Moscow!

  12. #12
    http://p068.ezboard.com/bstrawberrycanyonfsc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggygirl
    ...ever since it was confirmed early in the season that MK would be using it. A previous poster who said "if MK and Dean can't pull it off, then it's doubtful any single skater could..." or words to that effect. ITA, and for me anyway, it's not working. I just don't think that music HELPS the skater clearly show off choreo and skills, and build dramatic moments.

    While Nutcraker is certainly used again and again and again, I think it at least is a piece that lends itself to taking advantage of dramatic moments, especially for a skater like Sasha. I love Sasha's moves, but I don't nessecarily think the choreo really connects Sasha's moves to the music for full effect.

    I liked both of their SP's MUCH better. I like the musical choices and the accomanying choreo much better. Bear in mind I'm not overly sophisticated with these things!!

    ITA that both of these ladies have a lot of work to do before Worlds.

    2 cents..

    DG
    ITA. I wish they'd chosen their SP music as their LP music. Spartacus and Schwarze Auge were beautifully choreographed, and had a lot of personality. The Pas De Deux, for some reason, I think works better with another person on the ice with you...that's why it's called a Pas De Deux. Bolero, much as I love the final footwork sequence, had this machinistic drone that doesn't sing as well as some of her old programs did.

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    Sasha's program is a better program and she has stronger spins, laybacks and a strong spiral. She wins hands down if she has a clean skate, and especially if Michelle doesn't beef up her jump combinations (this is from a Michelle fan). Having said that, I like Bolero, but it has to be beefed up jump combination wise, if she is to be competitive with Irina. Irins HAS made some significant improvements in her skating, in spite of her illnesses (amazing). Her spins are more centered and faster and Interesting and level 3's. Her spiral sequence is much more interesting and a level 3. She is landing her difficult jump combinations fairly consistently. None of this bodes well for the US ladies. Sasha's Nutcracker is a beautiful program, it suits her style, and it has more content than Bolero. Michelle's Bolero is a good program (her spins are more interesting and faster) but it lacks a strong jump combination and her laybacks aren't as strong as Sasha's and Irina's. Under CoP I think she is going to have some problems. I think Sasha could actually fare better under this new system and be more competitive with Irina than Michelle. I wish Michelle had competed under this new system because she would have had a better idea where she stood early on and made changes accordingly. My worst nightmare is that she doesn't end up on the podium at all. My second worst nightmare is that Spartacus (which I find dull and by the way, what happened to the lutz-loop?) doesn't put her in the top 3 going into the LP. Her ace in the hole is her consistency, especially when her back is against the wall and others have messed up. But you can't count on others messing up. That isn't any kind of strategy I would want to rely on. Paging Lori Nichols.
    Last edited by kyla2; 01-16-2005 at 02:44 PM.

  14. #14
    Custom Title Jhar55's Avatar
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    Ok, seen the Bolero twice now and knid of like it the first time, but last night it lost me or just wasn't paying that close attentions. It's possible that had Sasha skated clean she might have own her marks were right up their. Guess we'll have to wait till worlds for the new scoring, that is if they both skate 2 clean programs.

  15. #15
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    Joe said awhile ago that he thinks Michelle's short, "Spartecus" would make a great long program..........maybe for next year. I totally agree. She took EOE, which was an exhibition number, and made it a marvelous short.........could happen.......42

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