Do you think Michelle might give Sasha some pointers on how to handle the inevitable "Sasha needs to retire to give other skaters a chance ...." or "she needs to up the technical ante" type of b***s*** that will follow as Kimmie is hyped to be the "next big thing"?
Enough
I think what pains Sasha more than anything is hearing the second guessing, the cruel carping from the media, and now, comments from former coaches (very declasse from my point of view). I"m surprised she gets up every morning, never mind trains. No one wants to succeed more than the athlete herself, so much of the criticism is pointless and cruel (a la Phil Hersh). I feel bad for her. She is being bettered from all sides and apparently doesn't know what to do to rectify the situation. I hope she stays with John Nicks, who knows her best. I hope she trains her heart out and ultimately succeeds. But there is the possibility that this is as good as it gets, and she will never skate a clean program against Michelle. She knows the crowd is in Michelle's corner and that must be very tough to deal with during a competition.
I think what pains Sasha more than anything is hearing the second guessing, the cruel carping from the media, and now, comments from former coaches (very declasse from my point of view). I"m surprised she gets up every morning, never mind trains. No one wants to succeed more than the athlete herself, so much of the criticism is pointless and cruel (a la Phil Hersh). I feel bad for her. She is being bettered from all sides and apparently doesn't know what to do to rectify the situation. I hope she stays with John Nicks, who knows her best. I hope she trains her heart out and ultimately succeeds. But there is the possibility that this is as good as it gets, and she will never skate a clean program against Michelle. She knows the crowd is in Michelle's corner and that must be very tough to deal with during a competition.
Fossi said:
I thought Sasha seemed really happy. I noticed that despite having mistakes in her LP and SP, after making the mistakes she skated the rest of the programs with a real smile on her face (it even extended to her eyes). I actually thought Sasha should have won Nationals despite her mistakes b/c her LP showcased harder spins and more transistions than MK and I think she attempted more triples than MK to boot. The Bolero program is the most disappointing program I have ever seen from MK and her winning performance was just crossovers into jumps. MK always gets criticized for empty choreography ( I always do this) however this time the program was totally empty. Where was the twizzle sequence from the first Bolero?
You stated Sasha really wanted to win that championship, can you please name one of the skaters that skated that didn't want to win?? Why would they be there if they didn't want to win?? That is the sole reason to be in any competition right??I think it is about time you get over Sasha and get on with your own business!!!!!!!!!!SkateFan4Life said:
Sasha Cohen analysis
So many threads and notes and ideas about Sasha! It is getting to the point of "BLAH BLAHBlaH bl bl blllllublah" again. But I think everyone who follows skating can take a very objective look at Sasha's skating and say the following:
1. Sasha has graceful movement, beautiful lines and extensions and flexibility.
2. Sasha has good speed and great flow over the ice.
3. Sasha is a fantastic spinner.
4. Sasha is a great jumper.
5. Sasha is a great practice skater.
6. Sasha is a fantastic Short Program skater.
7. Sasha is not a terrific Long Program skater who makes errors on her triple jumps in an inconsistent manner.
What I noticed in these Nationals, with the help of HDTV and a big, flat screen plasma TV, was that she looked tired and winded at about the 2:00 - 2:30 minute mark. She looked tired. Perhaps this has been the problem all along? Perhaps her limit is to be a fantastic skater who has trouble making it through seven triple programs? Perhaps only the tough training of Tarasova made her capable for a short time until she was exhausted? Perhaps she must only concentrate on this phase of the competition, which is her weakness, and train in a new way to create that ability to skate clean programs.
Her weakness is possibly her conditioning. Perhaps she is not really strong enough physically to train and perform clean, seven triple programs three and four times a day. It is this kind of training that will produce when the big events come around.
Her limits must exist, and maybe this is her limit. She is magnificent otherwise, and when she is no longer required to perform seven triple programs, she will probably almost never fall. Who knows?
She is magnificent, but she has this weakness which does hold her down in competitions in terms of winning big events.
It is her nemesis. Otherwise, she is amongst the best in the world in MITF, spins and most of the jumps (not her flutz, which is very poorly done for a lutz). She also does footwork well and she delights audiences.
IMHO, she should explore, with her coach, a training regimen which will lead up to numerous daily run throughs of her program, and even double run throughs. In 1994, Nancy Kerrigan, for six months prior, was doing daily double run throughs of her long program, stopping only long enough to rewind the tape. She was a skater who always had a jump error in a major event, often two or three, and she overcame this by the repetition method.
My suggestion is the simple repetition method. Too often she looks like she gets tired and makes errors in her long programs. It may be as simple as this.
So many threads and notes and ideas about Sasha! It is getting to the point of "BLAH BLAHBlaH bl bl blllllublah" again. But I think everyone who follows skating can take a very objective look at Sasha's skating and say the following:
1. Sasha has graceful movement, beautiful lines and extensions and flexibility.
2. Sasha has good speed and great flow over the ice.
3. Sasha is a fantastic spinner.
4. Sasha is a great jumper.
5. Sasha is a great practice skater.
6. Sasha is a fantastic Short Program skater.
7. Sasha is not a terrific Long Program skater who makes errors on her triple jumps in an inconsistent manner.
What I noticed in these Nationals, with the help of HDTV and a big, flat screen plasma TV, was that she looked tired and winded at about the 2:00 - 2:30 minute mark. She looked tired. Perhaps this has been the problem all along? Perhaps her limit is to be a fantastic skater who has trouble making it through seven triple programs? Perhaps only the tough training of Tarasova made her capable for a short time until she was exhausted? Perhaps she must only concentrate on this phase of the competition, which is her weakness, and train in a new way to create that ability to skate clean programs.
Her weakness is possibly her conditioning. Perhaps she is not really strong enough physically to train and perform clean, seven triple programs three and four times a day. It is this kind of training that will produce when the big events come around.
Her limits must exist, and maybe this is her limit. She is magnificent otherwise, and when she is no longer required to perform seven triple programs, she will probably almost never fall. Who knows?
She is magnificent, but she has this weakness which does hold her down in competitions in terms of winning big events.
It is her nemesis. Otherwise, she is amongst the best in the world in MITF, spins and most of the jumps (not her flutz, which is very poorly done for a lutz). She also does footwork well and she delights audiences.
IMHO, she should explore, with her coach, a training regimen which will lead up to numerous daily run throughs of her program, and even double run throughs. In 1994, Nancy Kerrigan, for six months prior, was doing daily double run throughs of her long program, stopping only long enough to rewind the tape. She was a skater who always had a jump error in a major event, often two or three, and she overcame this by the repetition method.
My suggestion is the simple repetition method. Too often she looks like she gets tired and makes errors in her long programs. It may be as simple as this.
ChiSk8: As I began reading your post, I kept thinking of how Nancy got together with a sports psychologist in 93-94 and began training tough with double run throughs, and then I got to the end of the post and you were talking about the exact same thing!!!! :agree:
I think its a twofold issue: Sasha is obsessed with the idea that only winning is good enough, and I think she also needs to "toughen up" her training like Nancy did. While the remarks made by Tatiana and Robin may not come off as very nice, they both seem to suggest that Sasha was not really amenable to working really hard on her weaknesses. To be blunt, Sasha taking a month "to train by herself" this summer in the crucial prepatory year prior to the Olympic year is only somewhat less bright than Michelle thinking she could get by without a coach in 2002. When two former coaches criticize a skater in the same vein, you can't just dismiss what they are saying as rudeness. There has to be some truth to their criticism. I think just as Michelle, after a pressure packed sub-par skate at Nationals has to decide if she really wants to put herself through the pressure cooker of Olympics for the third time, Sasha has to also figure out what Sasha really wants, refind the "heart" of her skating and her love for it and find a coach she can work with and settle herself down for some really hard work over the next year.
I think its a twofold issue: Sasha is obsessed with the idea that only winning is good enough, and I think she also needs to "toughen up" her training like Nancy did. While the remarks made by Tatiana and Robin may not come off as very nice, they both seem to suggest that Sasha was not really amenable to working really hard on her weaknesses. To be blunt, Sasha taking a month "to train by herself" this summer in the crucial prepatory year prior to the Olympic year is only somewhat less bright than Michelle thinking she could get by without a coach in 2002. When two former coaches criticize a skater in the same vein, you can't just dismiss what they are saying as rudeness. There has to be some truth to their criticism. I think just as Michelle, after a pressure packed sub-par skate at Nationals has to decide if she really wants to put herself through the pressure cooker of Olympics for the third time, Sasha has to also figure out what Sasha really wants, refind the "heart" of her skating and her love for it and find a coach she can work with and settle herself down for some really hard work over the next year.
Can you be more melodramatic. I just finished watching the first part of Ken Burns documentary on Jack Johnson the first African American heavy wt boxing champion. Sasha Cohen does not face one billionth the hardship that Johnson had to overcome. If you want to get closer to home of skating how about S &Z. Xue got up in an ungodly time early in the am to brave the harsh Harbin cold weather to trainn in an outdoor rinkkyla2 said:
http://www.travelchinaguide.com/climate/harbin.htm
when she was little, and all she had to eat were a few dumplings a day
BTW according to a Russian article Tarasova said somedays Cohen stayed up all night baking cookies, and so when she got up the next day to go through the motion of training it was a total waste Tarasova also said SC loved to go to Paris for shopping sprees, so there went some training time
She already skated a clean program (relatively clean program at QR worlds 03 in DC) The crowd is in MK's corner is way overblown. Even if that is true so what. Think Jack Johnson. How about Tiger Woods, he thrived when he reads hate mail and death threats. Take for example in worlds 04, she had to skate after a near perffect Arakawa, but if she was able to deliver a clean program the world gold was hers. So the crowd behind Mk was not what kept Sasha from skating a clean program
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Relunctantly, I have to agree that so far Bolero is one of Michelle's weaker porgrams.soogar said:
But the amazing thing about Michelle is that even with a dog of a program and a mediocre performance, she still sweeps away the so-called "competition," takes home the gold, and leaves everyone else explaining what went wrong and whining about who was robbed.
That having been said, to tell the truth I can't really see much difference in this years' Bolero and Aranjuez/Tosca. It seems like she has done the same program three years in a row. But the difference is, the program suited the Tosca and Aranjuez music, but does not suit Bolero. People are talking about new spin positions and more intersesting stroking patterns, but I'm afraid that is too subtle for me to appreciate.
This is not particularly an adverse criticism. This is a competition, after all. We do not blame Payton Manning because all of his record-setting 49 touchdown passes this year were pretty much the same. On the contrary, we cheer and marvel at each one.
Still, this has been an off-year for both Michelle and Sasha. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Worlds podium as Irina Sluteskaya, Miki Ando -- and then we'll see which which American skater can pull it together in time to hold off Joannie Rochette and Suzanna Poykio for bronze. (I'll still be rooting for Michelle, of course).
Mathman
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I don't think Bolero is her weakest program. It's just not as passionate as Aranjuez or Tosca but it certainly has way more content and difficulty than those programs. I think Bolero lacks that excitement of those 2 programs but that's about it. I truly hope she scratches it for next year because just like Red Violin (which I love more) she has to skate perfect for it to come off right.
I was thinking this also. Sasha said last year and this year that she was tired when she fell. I'm thinking this girl is in good shape so why does she always get tired after the 2 plus mark. I know she runs..well she runs to warm up. I don't know but she was doing off ice training when she was with TT and she was stronger then but eventually she was exhausted. It was too much for her so she needs to find a balance with a good trainer.
I was thinking this also. Sasha said last year and this year that she was tired when she fell. I'm thinking this girl is in good shape so why does she always get tired after the 2 plus mark. I know she runs..well she runs to warm up. I don't know but she was doing off ice training when she was with TT and she was stronger then but eventually she was exhausted. It was too much for her so she needs to find a balance with a good trainer.
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I'm not a big fan of the Bolero program. However, I do not find myself second guessing Kwan near as much as I do Cohen.
If Kwan can win with such a program, I can hardly fault her for using it. On the other hand, Cohen is not getting the results that she wants. Yes, she can win GP events and even a GPF. However, as much stock as we place in them, they are hardly World/Olympic caliber events. The field is much smaller and weaker. She wins those events despite her falls and flaws, not because of them.
If Sasha had skated cleanly last year at Nationals, she would have won. If she had skated cleanly at Worlds, she would have won. Let's face it, she has not established herself as a consistent enough skater for the judges to give her the benefit of the doubt that Irina and Michelle get.
Sasha tends to draw bad media to herself. It's not pretty or fair, but that is the way that it is. I think partly due to the fact that she and Team Sasha bring about ill will with the media. I'm proud that she now says that she just wants to have fun out there, but how many actually believe it. Her website, aimed at both fans and media, have such polls as what should Sasha add to her programs - a triple/triple, a quad, or a triple axel. The media love to go after a story that proves someone's PR wrong. Afterall, how many times can they write about Michelle winning. The other skaters are not well known enough for such recognition.
While I'm not a fan of Sasha as a skater, I hope that she does find happiness out there on the ice. I think that everyone should enjoy what they do for a living.
If Kwan can win with such a program, I can hardly fault her for using it. On the other hand, Cohen is not getting the results that she wants. Yes, she can win GP events and even a GPF. However, as much stock as we place in them, they are hardly World/Olympic caliber events. The field is much smaller and weaker. She wins those events despite her falls and flaws, not because of them.
If Sasha had skated cleanly last year at Nationals, she would have won. If she had skated cleanly at Worlds, she would have won. Let's face it, she has not established herself as a consistent enough skater for the judges to give her the benefit of the doubt that Irina and Michelle get.
Sasha tends to draw bad media to herself. It's not pretty or fair, but that is the way that it is. I think partly due to the fact that she and Team Sasha bring about ill will with the media. I'm proud that she now says that she just wants to have fun out there, but how many actually believe it. Her website, aimed at both fans and media, have such polls as what should Sasha add to her programs - a triple/triple, a quad, or a triple axel. The media love to go after a story that proves someone's PR wrong. Afterall, how many times can they write about Michelle winning. The other skaters are not well known enough for such recognition.
While I'm not a fan of Sasha as a skater, I hope that she does find happiness out there on the ice. I think that everyone should enjoy what they do for a living.
lavender said:
I agree about this year. I'm just in the camp that the judges were ready to give her the title last year. They were chomping at the bit so to speak. The 6.0 etc. in her scores even after the fall and stepout were ridiculous. Michelle's skate afterward was on fire, leaving the judges no choice at that point.
It's a moot point now, but I think that had they both been clean, the judges would have given it to Sasha.
This year was a bit different. I think that it would have gone to Kwan based on the fact that USFSA likes the publicity this year that Michelle winning 9 titles gets them.
Red Dog said:If anything, she would have let herself down. Not anyone else. Not even the fans.
I could tell people have given up on her, even the commentators seem to have done so.
But here's the thing. People love to claim she's capable of so much more. But what if she isn't? Wow, what a concept. She hasn't delivered that performance everyone's waiting for, so it makes me wonder if she really isn't capable (I use that word in a loose way) of doing so. Show me a performance from her like the one you're looking for, then I'll agree that she can do it.
Kwan has delivered great performances in the past, and only had a "average to good" performance this Nats. Therefore, I feel comfortable saying Kwan is capable of so much more than what she did.
Just my two cents. No rock-throwing, please
is because sasha keeps shooting herself in the foot over and over again. she is as capable(if not more)as michell,but does not want it as much or she would have skated a clean program by now. is lack of concentration and determination no coach can change that.
ritymeez said:
No. Sasha won silver in 2000, but had to withdraw from Nationals 2001 with a back injury. She won silver in 2002, but in 2003 she won bronze behind Sarah Hughes. So Sasha has won only two silvers in a row: 2004 and 2005.
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Mathman said:
weak competition in the states for michell has been good and bad. she does not have a fierce competitor like plush pushing her to improve so she keeps skating in that comfort zone not risking much it has worked in the past but is definitely hurting her now.
