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Thread: What about the USA's Men?

  1. #1
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    What about the USA's Men?

    and their chances of medalling in Moscow?

    Johnny - As the woman sitting in back of me during his LP proclaimed with a sigh: "He's like poetry on ice". I think he is unique and, imo, a better skater than anyone else, male or female - but is that enough to get him on the podium when you also consier the Canadian and European men ready to win the Worlds?

    Tim - is back and looking good. Can he reclaim his No.2 position in the worlds?

    Evan - will be new to the Worlds. Does he have a chance for a top 10 spot and make Frank Carroll happy with a skater in the Worlds?

    Joe

  2. #2
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I think Tim would have been even better had he not had such a roller coaster of emotions going on this weekend. It was understandable, but I think he'll be better suited to skate come Moscow. He's going to rock out. Johnny SHOULD be able to hit the podium as well... but I honestly don't know about him... he's had a great season and I'm not sure if he'll make it to worlds, ya know what I mean? Evan should do great as well... I love his presentation. He is too cute for words.. Jenny is a lucky girl (they are still an item, right? )

  3. #3
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Joe, I don't have a crystal ball, but:

    Johnny Weir is not going to beat Plushenko without a quad. If Lambiel skates well, he isn't going to beat Lambiel without a quad. If Joubert gets his head together again, he isn't likely to beat Joubert without a quad (Joubert has been very beatable this season so far, but...) Dambier has a quad. Li has a 2 quads. Honda may suddenly be able to skate again with a quad...or not. Lindeman was 3rd ahead of Johnny last year. He landed his quad again at German Nationals. Johnny is a very lovely skater, but he is skating at exactly the same level as last year, when he didn't medal. And this year, Buttle will probably be back at World's vying with Weir for best quadless skater. If Dr. Sandhu should finally show up to skate, it is still more complex.

    I do love Tim's SP this year, and if he does it with a 4t3t spiffy clean, it could rank in the top 6 again. I think he needs to up the ante some more with his LP though. In fact, I will be glad to see Queen Symphony go. After Angela's mom, it will be years before Tim will probably be comfortable skating to "who wants to live forever'.

    Evan's 3A's got downgraded to 2A's by a caller because he prerotates on one end and cheats on the other. Evan has to get that worked out, a tall task before world's. Realistically, he should be thrilled to make top 10, and I don't think it's that likely.

    Both Evan and Johnny say they are going to be putting in quads at worlds.
    That's a really heavy thing, and mitigates against their doing that well-chances are they won't do their quad that well first try in competition.

    I hope I'm wrong. I'd love to see one or more American men medal, and secure 3 spots for Olympics while they are at it.

  4. #4
    In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
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    I could easily see Johnny winning the silver in Moscow, quad or no quad. I can't see ANYONE beating Plushenko. Last season Joubert was a very strong #2 in the world behind Plushy, but he's struggling this year and IMO it's open season. I can see Goebel on the podium as well, but he's going to have to step it up a notch.

  5. #5
    Hopeless fan Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI
    Joe, I don't have a crystal ball, but:

    Both Evan and Johnny say they are going to be putting in quads at worlds.
    That's a really heavy thing, and mitigates against their doing that well-chances are they won't do their quad that well first try in competition.

    .
    That is the biggest reason I can think of why both of them might consider 4CC. I do think Johnny's podium chances are diminished sans quad. He will almost have to rely on less than stellar performances from several quaded guys to make it. While I don't think a quadless Johnny on the podium is impossible to imagine, I have a harder time imagining that if lot's of guys turn up with stellar skates and quads.

    DG

  6. #6
    GOLDEN DREAMS RealtorGal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyCoop
    I could easily see Johnny winning the silver in Moscow, quad or no quad. I can't see ANYONE beating Plushenko.
    Seems so true now, but then again, I didn't see anyone winning gold in SLC but Irina or Michelle, but we all know how THAT turned out!

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    If Plushy skates clean, no, no one will beat him... If Jonny skates clean, YES, he will be the silver medalist even without a quad.. His artistic/progarm components were all ranked +2,+3's in the COP judging.. Plushy, Buttle, and Sandu are the only ones who have marked that high.. Buttle has no quad, and Sandu has been shakey all year.. So I do believe Jonny will get the silver with a clean skate...Tim G, if he gets his quad and skates clean...ummm possibly top 5? He is a silver World medalist ya know..Evan, he is better artistically than a lot of the top skaters, but is too new for the senior scene.. I see him making his stand as a top male skater after 2006.. Thats my two cents...IMO

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    Johnny is GIANT steps ahead of where he was last year at this time. In 2004, Johnny was S-l-o-w, and as good as his jumps were, his Dr. Zhivago didn't flow the way Otonal does. The transitions in Johnny's program are really difficult and he flows from one movement to the next seamlessly. His footwork is much, much more difficult that it was last year.

    Johnny has already beaten Joubert. Brian is having a really tough time this year, and given his recent coaching change, he may not be able to make up lost ground by Worlds. Lambiel is a fine skater, and he does have a quad, but he is also an inconsistent skater, and he is returning from injury. Lindemann is equally inconsistent, and Stefan won't have the benefit of skating in his home country this time. We all know how unpredictable Sandhu is, and Buttle has major problems with his jumps.

    The one thing Johnny has going for him is his consistency and the reliability of his smooth jumping technique. I fully expect to see him land his quad at 4CC, and with a quad, he should make the podium at Worlds. He will not beat Plushenko this year, but he should win a World medal.

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    Last year's Worlds were scored under 6.0, so I think it's very likely that Johnny will end up with the silver, even without the quad. The only skater he hasn't beaten this year is Evgeni, so quad or no quad, I'm not worried about him. Buttle could also do well, if he's clean.

    Tim seems to get high component marks, which I don't understand, at least not for his long program. (short program is okay) I think Tim could get lost in a field of artists (Weir, Buttle, Sandhu if clean, Lambiel, Dambier) if he's shaky. He will have to be squeaky clean to be on the podium. If Joubert is clean, I think he'll get placed above Tim.

    If indeed it's true that Evan's 3As were downgraded, then I see him 8-12. It's really too bad Matt wasn't scored fairly at Nats, his programs are more CoP friendly than Evan's, and skated with better flow. (don't hate on me, I love Evan, and ideally, to me, our Worlds team would be Johnny, Matt, Evan...Matt also has that elegant Euro look to him that international judges love, as does Johnny, for that matter)


  10. #10
    Custom Title merrywidow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe
    Johnny is GIANT steps ahead of where he was last year at this time. In 2004, Johnny was S-l-o-w, and as good as his jumps were, his Dr. Zhivago didn't flow the way Otonal does. The transitions in Johnny's program are really difficult and he flows from one movement to the next seamlessly. His footwork is much, much more difficult that it was last year.

    Johnny has already beaten Joubert. Brian is having a really tough time this year, and given his recent coaching change, he may not be able to make up lost ground by Worlds. Lambiel is a fine skater, and he does have a quad, but he is also an inconsistent skater, and he is returning from injury. Lindemann is equally inconsistent, and Stefan won't have the benefit of skating in his home country this time. We all know how unpredictable Sandhu is, and Buttle has major problems with his jumps.

    The one thing Johnny has going for him is his consistency and the reliability of his smooth jumping technique. I fully expect to see him land his quad at 4CC, and with a quad, he should make the podium at Worlds. He will not beat Plushenko this year, but he should win a World medal.
    My exact thoughts. Thank you for expressing them so well, Euterpe!

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    Johnny has definitely come a long way since last year. COP will help him. If Plushenko skates clean (in all 3 phases) with a 4-3 combination, Johnny (or anyone else) won't be able to beat him without a quad. However, I think Johnny will be 2nd, unless Evgeni has a mistake and Johnny skates clean- he could win.

    That means I am leaving out all the other top skaters in the world- Joubert, Goebel,Buttle, Sandhu, Lambiel. What if one of these has a skate of his life with a quad? Under the COP I don't see Joubert or Goebel beating Johnny. Sandhu, Buttle, Lambiel could but I have not seen Lambiel this year at all, so I would not make any predictions about him. Buttle could outskate everyone, including Plushenko but without a quad it will be hard for him too to beat a clean Plushenko.

    Out of all these, none is as consistent or as artistic as Johnny. However, if Johnny makes one major mistake, any of these could take over his spot. Even though Johnny is the best skater overall, the field is very competitive.

    Vash

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    Tripping on the Podium
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    I personally think Evan will bomb at Worlds...out of the top 10. I thought Savoie should have gotten the bronze. His LP skating had a lot more quality to it, whatever that means! Then again, Matt has that awful hair. YUCK! But that's offset by Evan's costume. LOL, that jacket looks like it weighs at least 10 pounds...

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    Hopeless fan Doggygirl's Avatar
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    As A Charter Member Of The GS Dirty Old Lady Club...

    Quote Originally Posted by Olderbear
    I personally think Evan will bomb at Worlds...out of the top 10. I thought Savoie should have gotten the bronze. His LP skating had a lot more quality to it, whatever that means! Then again, Matt has that awful hair. YUCK! But that's offset by Evan's costume. LOL, that jacket looks like it weighs at least 10 pounds...
    I liked Matt's hair. A lot. Look out Skate Mom's of Young Men.

    DG

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    ~ Evgeni's Sex Bomb ~
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    Totally agree about Matt's hair. It looks fab, and I hope he keeps it long. Not every man can do long hair, but I think it suits, AND it suits his fabulous, wonderful programs.

    I hope Matt wins 4CC, if they send him. Which they should, since they robbed him at Nationals. Again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessLeppard
    Last year's Worlds were scored under 6.0, so I think it's very likely that Johnny will end up with the silver, even without the quad. The only skater he hasn't beaten this year is Evgeni, so quad or no quad, I'm not worried about him. Buttle could also do well, if he's clean.

    Tim seems to get high component marks, which I don't understand, at least not for his long program. (short program is okay) I think Tim could get lost in a field of artists (Weir, Buttle, Sandhu if clean, Lambiel, Dambier) if he's shaky. He will have to be squeaky clean to be on the podium. If Joubert is clean, I think he'll get placed above Tim.

    If indeed it's true that Evan's 3As were downgraded, then I see him 8-12. It's really too bad Matt wasn't scored fairly at Nats, his programs are more CoP friendly than Evan's, and skated with better flow. (don't hate on me, I love Evan, and ideally, to me, our Worlds team would be Johnny, Matt, Evan...Matt also has that elegant Euro look to him that international judges love, as does Johnny, for that matter)

    I so agree with this post. This is the first Worlds using COP. Johnny has been well received by the judges without a quad. Now if Lambiel shows up ready and quads his way through three programs, he could beat a quadless Johnny. I'm not as certain about the other skaters, even Joubert. Tim to me did not look that good in his LP, though maybe seeing it live made for a better impression. I think he will have land a quad in the SP and two in the LP to be on the podium. He did not seem that ready to me last week. Evan, is cute and likeable but not Worlds podium material yet. I think Matt would have scored well under COP with this program, expecially with those jump entrances. I think he has been inspired by the reception Johnny has received internationally.
    Johnny top five, maybe podium, maybe even Silver
    Tim top six, not on podium this year.
    Evan, top 10/12

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