- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Whatever he is smoking, I think I want some.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/10661993.htm
DG
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/10661993.htm
DG
Hersch article re:Ladies at Nats...
- Thread starter Doggygirl
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Link to another thread...
DG
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7098&highlight=World+Oly+Medals
....where this very topic was discussed.attyfan said:
DG
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7098&highlight=World+Oly+Medals
Every single Ladies OGM winner has stood on the World podium before winning the OGM. Every single one. Not every one was a World Champion before winning Olympic gold, but they'd all won a World medal.
That is the one thing that will hurt Kimmie---she can't compete at Worlds until 2006.
That is the one thing that will hurt Kimmie---she can't compete at Worlds until 2006.
Not only was Baiul World Champion before she won the OGM in '94, she was also a two-time Europeans silver medalist. Lipinski had gone to Worlds at 13 in 1996 (she finished 13th) before winning 1997 Worlds. She was also a 2-time GPF champion (1996-1997 and 1997-1998). Hughes won World bronze in 2001 and was the GPF bronze medal winner in the 2000-2001 and 2001-2002 GP series.
So the assumption is, I guess, that if you don't have a World's medal going into the Olympics, you're just skating for placement? That must be disheartening. Will the judges automatically down-grade your scores even if you are brilliant? (I guess if you're brilliant, you would have won a World medal by now!!!) (This is what my mind does when I have the day off)...........42
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Kimmie is only 15...
So I suspect she would be thrilled to make the Olymic team if she does, and be thrilled just to be there. I doubt given where she is competitively she would be disheartened by anything.
We all need to keep in mind that the age limitations put in place are pretty recent. So many of the real youngsters that have medaled at World's and then Oly's by the time they are Kimmie's age couldn't do that any more.
If Kimmie DOES make the Oly team in 2006, and then IS disappointed if she doesn't medal, I will be disappointed in her attitude. But somehow I seriously doubt she is or will be thinking that way. Even Tara with lot's more Sr. International competitions under her belt seemed way more interested in just experiencing the Olympics than worried about medals. When she surprised us all, I think she surprised herself too. Not that she didn't know she had some goods, but I don't think she expected that result. Same way with Sarah.
DG
So I suspect she would be thrilled to make the Olymic team if she does, and be thrilled just to be there. I doubt given where she is competitively she would be disheartened by anything.
We all need to keep in mind that the age limitations put in place are pretty recent. So many of the real youngsters that have medaled at World's and then Oly's by the time they are Kimmie's age couldn't do that any more.
If Kimmie DOES make the Oly team in 2006, and then IS disappointed if she doesn't medal, I will be disappointed in her attitude. But somehow I seriously doubt she is or will be thinking that way. Even Tara with lot's more Sr. International competitions under her belt seemed way more interested in just experiencing the Olympics than worried about medals. When she surprised us all, I think she surprised herself too. Not that she didn't know she had some goods, but I don't think she expected that result. Same way with Sarah.
DG
icy_fresh said:
Maybe that's why she didn't win gold.
The Ladies statistic applies to OLYMPIC GOLD medal winners, not to Olympic medal winners. Kimmie has a shot at a medal, but it's not likely to be gold.
I'd say the OGM winner in 2006 will have stood on the World podium at some point before 2006. Candidates: Kwan, Slutskaya, Sokolova, Suguri, Arakawa, Cohen and the Worlds 2005 medalwinners, whoever they may be, and possibly (if she returns to eligible skating) Sarah Hughes.
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
And there she will be able to test herself against 14-year-old Mao Asada, who also has a triple Axel, but is not eligible for 2006 Worlds or the Olympics. First things first, Kimmie.
Today's Detroit Free Press also ran an article today saying that Kimmie deserved 6.0s for tech. Since the judges were giving them out like candy, why not? Free Press Olympic Sports reporter also said that Meissner was now Michelle's greatest rival.
Poor Sasha. A couple of less-than-perfect performances and all of a sudden she's history
First things first.
Mathman
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
LOL Mathman...
ITA - first things first.
DG
Honestly, all of this stuff is why I want to smoke whatever these reporters are smoking. I really enjoyed watching Kimmie's skate, and was thrilled that she went after that 3 Axel, whether or not it was fully rotated. She's definitely a bright spot on the horizon. But according to Hersch anyway, Sasha and possibly Michelle WuzRobbed??????Mathman said:And there she will be able to test herself against 14-year-old Mao Asada, who also has a triple Axel, but is not eligible for 2006 Worlds or the Olympics. First things first, Kimmie.
Today's Detroit Free Press also ran an article today saying that Kimmie deserved 6.0s for tech. Since the judges were giving them out like candy, why not? Free Press Olympic Sports reporter also said that Meissner was now Michelle's greatest rival.
Poor Sasha. A couple of less-than-perfect performances and all of a sudden she's history
First things first.
Mathman
ITA - first things first.
DG
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Attyfan's first question was about Olympic medals of any color. I think Icy Fresh is right. Liz Manley was 13th at Worlds in 1982, then from 1984 to 1987 she was 8th, 9th, 5th and 4th. (Second in 1988, after the Olympics).
I agree with ChuckM. If she had gone to Calgary with a stronger reputation the judges probably would have scored her figures higher and she would have won gold.
MM
I agree with ChuckM. If she had gone to Calgary with a stronger reputation the judges probably would have scored her figures higher and she would have won gold.
MM
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
Doggygirl said:
The only one who seemed concerned with JUST winning gold was Sasha...
Lots More Than Just Jumps
I hate to tell Phil hersh et al. this, but there is much more to figure skating than the jumps. Kimmie, for all of her presentation skills, still skates like a junior skater. Her layback needs work as does her footwork. I could go on. She has tons of potential, but talk to me in another couple of years.
I hate to tell Phil hersh et al. this, but there is much more to figure skating than the jumps. Kimmie, for all of her presentation skills, still skates like a junior skater. Her layback needs work as does her footwork. I could go on. She has tons of potential, but talk to me in another couple of years.
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- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Another funny thing about this article...
It seems as though Hersch is suggesting that Kimmie would have fared BETTER under COP, solely based on the jumps. Unless I've been smoking funny stuff right along with him, I would suggest that the opposite is true - the variety of skating skills under COP being rewarded OVER someone who is only landing jumps. This is not to take away from Kimmie's obvious potential in other areas. BUT... I think we would all agree that her other elements (spins, spirals, footwork, etc.) were nowhere close to the top ladies at this comp, or at the international comps this season.
Crazy.
DG
It seems as though Hersch is suggesting that Kimmie would have fared BETTER under COP, solely based on the jumps. Unless I've been smoking funny stuff right along with him, I would suggest that the opposite is true - the variety of skating skills under COP being rewarded OVER someone who is only landing jumps. This is not to take away from Kimmie's obvious potential in other areas. BUT... I think we would all agree that her other elements (spins, spirals, footwork, etc.) were nowhere close to the top ladies at this comp, or at the international comps this season.
Crazy.
DG
When I saw Kimmie skate Saturday night, I was reminded of a tiny girl who won silver behind Tonya Harding at '94 Nationals, in the absence of the knee-clubbed Nancy Kerrigan. There are so many similarities there. Had Nancy skated, Michelle would have been 3rd (although this was her 2nd Senior Nationals, not her first; she'd placed 6th at her first Nationals when she was 12).
Of course, that was then, under different rules, and 13-year-old Michelle went on to Senior Worlds and as the lone US Lady (Bobek failed to qualify), she finished 8th and saved two spots for '95 Worlds.
Kimmie reminded me so much of Michelle in '94 because she showed the same kind of calmness and aplomb that has carried Kwan to so many titles and honors over the years. Yes, Kimmie is older; at 15, Kwan won her first US Championship and went on to win her first World Championship. But still, I look at Kimmie and see the potential.
Of course, that was then, under different rules, and 13-year-old Michelle went on to Senior Worlds and as the lone US Lady (Bobek failed to qualify), she finished 8th and saved two spots for '95 Worlds.
Kimmie reminded me so much of Michelle in '94 because she showed the same kind of calmness and aplomb that has carried Kwan to so many titles and honors over the years. Yes, Kimmie is older; at 15, Kwan won her first US Championship and went on to win her first World Championship. But still, I look at Kimmie and see the potential.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Kyla2 - The rule on laybacks is to just bend at the waist. I believe you insist that it take the shape of the ballet-attitude position. I think that position will get an extra plus under CoP but it is not basic to the layback.kyla2 said:
Kimmie is 15 and in five years she will be Sasha's age who has had gobs of experience in competitive skating at the senior level. Kimmie is a bronze medalist in her first Nats and that is quite an accomplishment for any skater. What happens a year from now and in Torino a few months later is anyone's guess. Think Sarah. Let's keep the keyword for Kimmie as you say: 'potential' .
Joe
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