michelle kwan forum

Piel said:

I posted at Sashafans for the first time last week after nationals. After reading post after post bashing Kwan, for example....
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I asked why there was so much hostility toward her. I asked it in a nice way and did not break any of their rules. A few minutes later my post was deleted and now I am unable to post there without as much as an e-mail or word as to what I did wrong. I guess whoever's board it is can ban anyone they want but this seemed awfully unfair IMO. I'ts almost like the policy is either come here to adore Sasha and bash Kwan or stay away. I can't believe that those who I'd like to think of as rational people are not open to discussion or willing to back up such accusations with fact. It really makes me appreciate GS, Paula, the mods, and the posters here.

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I agree with you Piel.

Almost all skater site has those Royal fans who would jump on defending their favorates. Unlike Piel, I never bother to post at SashaFans or for that matter skatingforumn,( I was banned from skatingforumn couple of years ago for some stupid reason). I lurk both places once a while, there are a few fair minded posters there. Just at LP night I read at SashaFans that there are some posters there Pray for Michelle fall and make mistakes. Even that I never feel impulsive to regist and posted there, why stir the pot? If you can't say something nice? Let them have fun.

While some of posters posted at MKF's after the National did have good intention at mind to make some construct criticism. But some you can tell they just registed there to make some troubles after the nationals. They all hide behinde "I love Michelle .... But ......". "I'm glad she wing 9th title, but this is not winning...". Some claim that they've been lurking for long time but never posted there and now suddenly they felt impulsive to post some nickpicking comments after Kwan's 9th title winning?... You do feel suspecious that someone don't like her winning, but since no one out skated her, so let's pick her apart...

IMO, a disscusion board dedicated to perticular skater is like the home of that skater. You don't go other ppl's home **on purpose** at their house warming celebrating and saying "Congration on your new home. But your bath room is too small. The stairway is too narrow, The Ketchin is old fashine ...." with all those nagtive comments. It's called comman curtesy.

I remember I also made comments in this board that Michelle looks put on some weight after Marshall's and Nationals. I diddn't got any flame at. I remember I got flamed at MKF back at 2003 season when I made comments about Sarah's weight (after seeing a photo of her at Sulliven award ceremory). What reactions you expect to get when you made comments on MK's weight at her own board after her 9th title win?

It is disturbing that this pre-conceived negative notion of MKF has become almost systematic in the figure skating community on the internet. Believe me just about every skater-specific forum is guilty of the very crimes that MKF is so conveniently accused of. I'm usually very active, browsing various forums whenever competitions Michelle is participating in are on. I must say Sashafan forum left a very bad taste in my mouth especially recently after the Nats.

It was deja vu all over again starting from Nationals 2003. Each time Michelle stayed on her feet and beat Sasha who fell, there would be threads that reeked of criticisms of Michelle that wouldn't make much sense and would border on bashing. Yes these same criticisms would be deemed bashing by them should they originate from MKF about other skaters. Some posters even suggested conspiracy theories and one even went as far as to suggest Michelle might have a hand in "some" incident.

Back to Nats2005, all I read about was hostility towards Michelle and for many days, wishes of congratulations were conspicuously missing. Now take this, ironically or shall I say paradoxically (since MK is evil ), for every poster who criticized Irina for her victory this season, there would be 5 posters who would congratulate her, on MKF. I kid you not.

Actually I would expect this to be common on any forum dedicating to a specific skater. However, I find it utterly disgusting when a forum is allowed to tolerate and accomodate the very same negative behaviours that its members are accusing MKF of. That so reeks of hypocrisy. No matter, my appreciation of Sasha would not be affected.

Can't we all just stop putting those awful labels on MKF when just about every skater-specific forum is no different from MKF.

apache88 said:

It is disturbing that this pre-conceived negative notion of MKF has become almost systematic in the figure skating community on the internet. Believe me just about every skater-specific forum is guilty of the very crimes that MKF is so conveniently accused of. I'm usually very active, browsing various forums whenever competitions Michelle is participating in are on. I must say Sashafan forum left a very bad taste in my mouth especially recently after the Nats.

It was deja vu all over again starting from Nationals 2003. Each time Michelle stayed on her feet and beat Sasha who fell, there would be threads that reeked of criticisms of Michelle that wouldn't make much sense and would border on bashing. Yes these same criticisms would be deemed bashing by them should they originate from MKF about other skaters. Some posters even suggested conspiracy theories and one even went as far as to suggest Michelle might have a hand in "some" incident.

Back to Nats2005, all I read about was hostility towards Michelle and for many days, wishes of congratulations were conspicuously missing. Now take this, ironically or shall I say paradoxically (since MK is evil ), for every poster who criticized Irina for her victory this season, there would be 5 posters who would congratulate her, on MKF. I kid you not.

Actually I would expect this to be common on any forum dedicating to a specific skater. However, I find it utterly disgusting when a forum is allowed to tolerate and accomodate the very same negative behaviours that its members are accusing MKF of. That so reeks of hypocrisy. No matter, my appreciation of Sasha would not be affected.

Can't we all just stop putting those awful labels on MKF when just about every skater-specific forum is no different from MKF.

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ITA...this is true: ALL SKATER-SPECIFIC FORUMS ARE THE SAME. However, MKF is the largest and most popular, therefore more people know about it, hence why it gets more flack than other sites.

They aren't as bad as it might sound, but it's still enough to drive a non-fan like me away from those sites, and visit them only for news.

re: Forums

SashaFans and SkatingForums are both run by the same person (and I'll just leave it at that!) I stopped visiting both places a long time ago.

I like MKF - for the most part, it's a nice Board with some good discussions. Unfortunately, the trolls seem to come out of the woodwork at competition time, but I guess that's true for any Board.

MKbeauty said:

SashaFans and SkatingForums are both run by the same person (and I'll just leave it at that!) I stopped visiting both places a long time ago.

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Just one Person?? I thought Dustin one of the moderators here at GS is an coadmin or co owner of sashafans and skatingforums

I think these are mostly teenagers saying things like, oh yeah, well my skater can whup up on your skater with one hand tied behind her back, and besides that your mama is so ugly, when we went to the zoo they said thanks for bringing her back!

I doubt if the skaters spend much time worrying about it.

MM

I agree that it's mostly skater specific boards that have these issues. MKF can be completely OTT, but Sashafans is no better.

One thing I will say is that after Nats, there was alot of fighting at MKF about negative comments. Some of the negative comments were constructive and useful, others were obviously started by troublemakers and were put there to rile people up. So it's not quite so black and white as all that. This doesn't happen at Sashafans because of their more extreme moderation and smaller board size.

And that's all I have to say about that........

Mathman said:

I think these are mostly teenagers saying things like, oh yeah, well my skater can whup up on your skater with one hand tied behind her back, and besides that your mama is so ugly, when we went to the zoo they said thanks for bringing her back!

I doubt if the skaters spend much time worrying about it.

MM

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I don't know I find this hilarious and I totally agree.

Ok seriously, for me, I never have issues with criticisms. I can accept "Michelle's skating sucks, she skates like a robot...etc...etc". If they are backed by logic and reason, fine, I respect these opinions but even if they are baseless I wouldn't get offended. I would just ignore them after sometime since they are baseless, there's really no point engaging in such discussions. What I do really have issues with is hypocrisy such as when a poster criticizes others or a group of fans in particular of certain negative behaviours and he/she behaves exactly that. Another issue I have is posters having negative speculations of a person's character and personality without first hand encounters or experiences with the subject per se.

I don't know I just feel it's so unjust that MKF has taken all the bad rap all this while when other skater-specific forums are just no different. It's very unfair to lots of members from MKF who are actually very nice and sensible posters. Some black sheep just happen to have spoilt it all for them. But hey which forum doesn't have black sheep. MKF has the most black sheep because of its sheer size of registered members. At the end of the day, the ratio of bad posters to the total members is more or less the same on every forum.

there were a lot of people at nationals who were overly critical of Sasha and compared her to the "perfect" MK... the way these people were talking made me want to get up and leave. If you have issues with a skater then shut up or go on a message board after the fact that allows you to bash a skater and leave me out of it. I even got asked by a lady why I didn't stand for Michelle, like it was a rule that I had to. I said I wasn't a fan of hers. she replied with "Oh, you're a SASHA Fan" and I said no, that I really didn't care for any of the ladies except for Jenny. Which got an even uglier response to the point where I thought the lady was going to turn violent. How dare I like someone so lowly as Jenny and then not turn around and want to kiss MKs butt round the world. It was insane! So I can see where Sasha fans got their feelings from

not only that but one of the Sasha fan signs led to problems because a Kwan fan put a sign directly under it that made it look like it said something about Sasha being struck by teh Kwan spirit/spiral... yeah that sign kept "falling" down... so there were some hostilities from both camps running wild...

not all fans are like that, but I met enough to know I really don't want to be counted among them, ever

and yes I did give MK a standing O at the exhibition, but that was because I decided to stand for all of our champs. (and cuz Erin made me )

apache88 said:

I don't know I just feel it's so unjust that MKF has taken all the bad rap all this while when other skater-specific forums are just no different. It's very unfair to lots of members from MKF who are actually very nice and sensible posters. Some black sheep just happen to have spoilt it all for them. But hey which forum doesn't have black sheep. MKF has the most black sheep because of its sheer size of registered members. At the end of the day, the ratio of bad posters to the total members is more or less the same on every forum.

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I don't think MKF has taken the rap everywhere, I mean for non skater specific forums. Most forums have a no board dragging or no talking about other forums rule. Actually I believe it is kind of the guideline here at GS. But MKF,and some Mk fans are taking the rap here at GS, in this thread. Some rap came from a GS moderator LOL. Apache you have to analyze why? Also if e.g. if SCF and some Sasha fans are taking similar rap from posters ( I don't mean from GS mods) i speculate what would happen????

Three different GS mods have participated in this thread so far, so you can not say mods do not know about this board dragging behavior.

PS Tonicelle, I too have quite a lot of stories to tell about Sasha fans from competitions, if you open up the discussion about how some MK fans behave in competitions, then behavior of other fans in competitions is fair for discussions too JMHO.

re: other Forums

gezando said:

Just one Person?? I thought Dustin one of the moderators here at GS is an coadmin or co owner of sashafans and skatingforums

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Okay, maybe there's more than one moderator; does it really make a difference, since the other one is definitely involved? Whatever, I'm out of this thread.

gezando said:

I don't think MKF has taken the rap everywhere, I mean for non skater specific forums. Most forums have a no board dragging or no talking about other forums rule. Actually I believe it is kind of the guideline here at GS. But MKF,and some Mk fans are taking the rap here at GS, in this thread. Some rap came from a GS moderator LOL. Apache you have to analyze why? Also if e.g. if SCF and some Sasha fans are taking similar rap from posters ( I don't mean from GS mods) i speculate what would happen????

Three different GS mods have participated in this thread so far, so you can not say mods do not know about this board dragging behavior.

PS Tonicelle, I too have quite a lot of stories to tell about Sasha fans from competitions, if you open up the discussion about how some MK fans behave in competitions, then behavior of other fans in competitions is fair for discussions too JMHO.

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Speaking of board-dragging, if it is not allowed here, I apologize because I just did that in my 2 previous posts. I thought since this was a thread about MKF and there were discussions of their infamous behaviours, it was relevant of me to bring up other forums. I shall stop if that's the rule. Again sorry.

MKbeauty said:

Okay, maybe there's more than one moderator; does it really make a difference, since the other one is definitely involved? Whatever, I'm out of this thread.

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Oh no don't leave, if moderators here at GS allow this thread to evolve. You should stay. So far this thread started by someone asking is MKF down. Then it evolved into posters telling everyone how fair minded they are even though they are MK fans, unlike some of those other MK fans at MKF. No harm no foul., I guess about how fair minded, but why the need to bash other fans from another forum? Then it evolved into crazy MK fan behavior. One of these post is from a GS mderator

Then there is rebuttal from some posters, (only natural for that evolution). Sasha fan forum examples are cited.

MKbeauty, this thread may turn out to be interesting

apache88 said:

Speaking of board-dragging, if it is not allowed here, I apologize because I just did that in my 2 previous posts. I thought since this was a thread about MKF and there were discussions of their infamous behaviours, it was relevant of me to bring up other forums. I shall stop if that's the rule. Again sorry.

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No I am not accusing you of board dragging. I am making the point that moderators here allow board dragging at least in this thread re: MKF, whether they will allow board dragging if another board is involved remains to be seen.

Well, here is what the Golden Skate guidelines say:

"Q: What is "bashing"?

A: "Bashing," by definition, occurs when you bring your own personal feelings into the forum and turn posts and threads into a war. Everyone has his or her own opinions, favorite skaters, etc. It is important to remember that there are many members from different cultural environments. As a result, some posts can be misperceived. Use good judgment when posting and replying to posts.

Bashing also means excessively posting negative things (true or untrue) pertaining to skaters. Again, it's 'ok' to disagree, joke, and comment, but to blatantly bash a skater because you don't like him/her will not be tolerated in this forum.

Note: The Golden Skate Forum will not tolerate bashing of other skating forums."

And...

"The forum is a place where you should be able to voice your opinions and ideas without offending others. This is called tact - the ability to appreciate the delicacy of a situation and to do or say the kindest or most fitting thing."

gezando said:

No I am not accusing you of board dragging. I am making the point that moderators here allow board dragging at least in this thread re: MKF, whether they will allow board dragging if another board is involved remains to be seen.

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No, don't worry, I wasn't implying you were accusing me of board-dragging. I am aware it is not allowed on certain forums and I can understand why and respect that guideline. I wasn't sure if it was allowed here and when you mentioned it, it suddenly hit me that I might have violated one of the rules here. Thanks for clarifying.

Mathman said:

Well, here is what the Golden Skate guidelines say:
Note: The Golden Skate Forum will not tolerate bashing of other skating forums."
"

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I hope my posts thus far here are not deemed as bashing Sashafans forum. It wan't my intention. The reason I brought up that forum is because I wanted to use it as an example to substantiate my argument that all skater-specific forums were just the same and MKF should not be singled out as the only one with bad behaviours. If any moderator finds my posts to be inappropriate, please let me know, I will gladly delete them and my apology to those who are offended.

all I said were there were fanatics in the rink... bringing up something Joesitz had posted on... Sasha fans, I'm sure, are also to blame (there were MK signs "disappearing" around the rink) the camps are equally hostile... we saw it with Tara's fanboards too...

I don't think board dragging has occurred. Everyone's pretty much under teh general consensus that all boards have just as many fanatics as teh other... there's nothing wrong with that, it's what makes it fun

Tonichelle said:

all I said were there were fanatics in the rink...

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you are the moderator You talked about MK's fanatics, as long as it is fair discussion to talk about other skater's fanatics.