Men's SP | Golden Skate

Men's SP

Kasey

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Right now, after first two groups:

1. Griazev
2. Contesti
3. Smalun
4. Dambier
5. Lezin

Eurosport radio has been commentating on the dang tennis match, of course!
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
For those who have been wondering about Lambiel as a "player" at Worlds...

He apparently singled his axel, but they were raving about the rest of his SP. Especially his spins. Into first, even with the 1A. It will be interesting to "hear" what he does in the LP and see his overall COP scores.

DG
 

Mehdi

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 26, 2003
yeah !!!!!
Brian leads !!
Plushy : 4toe/turns/3toe, wonky 3axel, great 3lutz (75.33 = 35.93 + 39.40)
Brian : 4toe/2toe (not clean enough on the quad to go for 3toe), wonky 3axel as well, but not as uncomfortable as Plushy's one, great 3flip (76.98 = 38.80 + 38.18)

Loved both performances.
 
Last edited:

Kasey

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
very interesting top six!

1. Joubert
2. Plush
3. Lambiel
4. Griazev
5. Lindeman
6. Van Der Perren

Should be a great contest in the LP!!!!
 

diver chick

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Lambiel did indeed single his triple axel. He never got the speed going into it and it never looked on for a triple but I think people were surprised that he didn't pull in and pull out at least a double.

As for the program itself, it is absolutely gorgeous. Fabulous spins as usual, the quad looked as secure as I have ever seen him do it, and he had a fabulous running edge coming out of it, he ran it so long I thought he wasn't going to do a combo because he was quite close to the boards and then he puts on a triple to the end. The choreography and structure of the program was excellant, the whole thing was seamless from start to finish and everything just fit the music perfectly and Stephane himself skated it with his usual flair and grace. I could have watched it all day. Definitely deserved to be in third in spite of the axel and IMO had he hit the axel it would have been a better program by far than Jouberts and possibly even Plushenko. I am surprised with the results of the top two because I think that perhaps Plushenko's program was slightly better, however the scores were reasonbly close so I am not reading too much into it other than the fact that Joubert landed his combo cleanly whereas Plush had to put turn in between the two jumps.
 

curious

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
diver chick said:
Lambiel did indeed single his triple axel. He never got the speed going into it and it never looked on for a triple but I think people were surprised that he didn't pull in and pull out at least a double.

As for the program itself, it is absolutely gorgeous. Fabulous spins as usual, the quad looked as secure as I have ever seen him do it, and he had a fabulous running edge coming out of it, he ran it so long I thought he wasn't going to do a combo because he was quite close to the boards and then he puts on a triple to the end. The choreography and structure of the program was excellant, the whole thing was seamless from start to finish and everything just fit the music perfectly and Stephane himself skated it with his usual flair and grace. I could have watched it all day. Definitely deserved to be in third in spite of the axel and IMO had he hit the axel it would have been a better program by far than Jouberts and possibly even Plushenko. I am surprised with the results of the top two because I think that perhaps Plushenko's program was slightly better, however the scores were reasonbly close so I am not reading too much into it other than the fact that Joubert landed his combo cleanly whereas Plush had to put turn in between the two jumps.




joubert is going to skate first in the last group leading evgeny skating second to last by less than two points with that awful lp. I don't like brian's chances:laugh:
 

Hikaru

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 23, 2004
The component marks were very close between Plushenko and Joubert, and I think usually Plushy would get higher marks on that area (I haven't checked, but I'm remembering from the top of my head). Of course Plushy won on that area, Joubert won on the technical score. Should the component marks be kept on the same level, then the title could be won by the person who makes their elements cleaner. Then again, Plushy could go out and skate it all to gain the advantage, and also Joubert could go out and skate all the best he can since he hasn't got such a great season. In any case, is going to be very, very interesting to watch! Or maybe they'll bouth unravel and Lambiel could win! Who knows! it's going to be a very interesting FS!!
 

diver chick

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
marks and placements aside I like Lambiel and VanderPerrens programs the best. Overall I felt that Stephanes was a beautifully balanced and interpreted program. Also apart from the axel I think that Lambiels program is as good technically as Plushenko. For my money, if they both skate clean and equally technical free programs I would give the nod to Lambiel because I think there is more polish and finesse to his skating ;)
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
I cannot say I agree with you at this point, since I have not seen either of Plushy or Stephane's skate, but I just lurrrves every thing you have to say regarding Lambiel :love:
 

yelyoh

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Okay so Joubert did a shakey but clean 3 axel and Lambiel did a single. But Lambiel had a more difficult jump combo and most likely better spins. And SL had footwork that was as good as BJ according to reports I've read. So how did BJ wind up with TES scores that much better AND better PCS marks. Is he that much better than Lambiel? Am I not seeing something? With a nine-point advantage SL cannot hope to catch up with BJ in the LP. Yeah I know I haven't seen the programs at this competition but........

:scratch:
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Hard to believe, isn't it. I've seen both short programs (not Euros) and Joubert's is not as good as Lambiel's, especially the spins and the footwork. But what's new? This is typical CoP judging. But I'll wait till I've seen both performances till I say another thing.
 

brad640

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
yelyoh said:
Okay so Joubert did a shakey but clean 3 axel and Lambiel did a single. But Lambiel had a more difficult jump combo and most likely better spins. And SL had footwork that was as good as BJ according to reports I've read. So how did BJ wind up with TES scores that much better AND better PCS marks. Is he that much better than Lambiel? Am I not seeing something? With a nine-point advantage SL cannot hope to catch up with BJ in the LP. Yeah I know I haven't seen the programs at this competition but........

So true. This shows that COP is the same old "total package" system and nothing has really changed. The jumps and reputation still win over lesser known skaters, and exceptional footwork/spins/choreography will only get you so far. PCS marks are the same as the presentation marks where the judges can do whatever they want - only now it is worse because they are anonymous!!
 

Mehdi

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 26, 2003
yelyoh said:
With a nine-point advantage SL cannot hope to catch up with BJ in the LP.

A seven-point advantage rather. (Brian: 76.98 / Stéphane: 69.97)
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Lambiel is the best figure skater in the whole competition, imo. Sorry the judges can't see it but we all know they have been wrong before. I hope ESPN shows his LP if not this SP.

Joe
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mehdi said:
A seven-point advantage rather. (Brian: 76.98 / Stéphane: 69.97)
The difference between singling the required Axel (1.5 base less mandatory -3 GOE for not enough rotations in a required element, or .3 total for a 1A) and getting base on the planned 3A (7.5) is the difference between Joubert's score and Lambiel's score.
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
I think the single axel REALLY hurt Lambiel...

I'm not sure if it hurt him by 7 points. You may have noticed I posted a generic version of a COP question in the Edge that actually relates specifically to Lambiel's single axel. A minimum of a double axel is a required element in the Men's (and Ladies) short, so a single axel would be a completely missed required element. I'm still not clear exactly what the COP scoring implications are in total for a completely missed element, but I suspect it is probably more than just the difference in value between a triple axel and a single axel.

I haven't seen the performances so won't comment on the PCS scores - I think we all agree by now that's the significant area for "play" with the judges though.

I'm hoping to find a bit more time today to study up on the single axel COP information.

DG
 

yelyoh

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Okay folks that addresses what Lambiel missed but what about the fact that he did a more difficult jump combo and is a better spinner than Joubert. Under CoP that adds up to something. Yes?
 

diver chick

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
The more I see of the competition and the scoring, the less I understand and the more I'm inclined to think that it is going to allow the judges get away with an awful lot more than they ever could under the old system!
 
Top