# Thread: Questions for the COP Experts...

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## Questions for the COP Experts...

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These questions relate to required elements, and scoring implications under COP for Men's SP.

Q1: A jump combo is a required element, right? I realize there are +/- GOE implications that might be impossible to predict. But generally speaking, what do you think a typical negative COP scoring impact would be if there is a step out on the first jump of a combo before the second jump is performed. For the sake of this discussion we can assume both jumps are fully rotated, just with a wonky landing on jump 1 requiring a step out before jump 2.

Q2: An Axel is required for Men's SP, right? I believe the minumum is a double Axel. What would the COP negative implication be for completion of a fully rotated SINGLE Axel? Wouldn't that be a missed element? Not sure what the penalty (if any other than lack of points for the required element) is for that.

Still learning this new system..

DG

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Originally Posted by Doggygirl
These questions relate to required elements, and scoring implications under COP for Men's SP.

Q1: A jump combo is a required element, right? I realize there are +/- GOE implications that might be impossible to predict. But generally speaking, what do you think a typical negative COP scoring impact would be if there is a step out on the first jump of a combo before the second jump is performed. For the sake of this discussion we can assume both jumps are fully rotated, just with a wonky landing on jump 1 requiring a step out before jump 2.
The text in JS 15 Singles - Instructions for Technical Specialist #7-#8 says that in the SP, if there is a turn out on one leg, regardless of whether the free leg touches the ice, it will be considered a combination. (In the FS, if the free leg touches the ice during the turns, the jumps are scored as a sequence.) The GOE chart determines the deduction.

According to the JS 12 Singles - GOE Short Program, the deduction for turns on one leg without touching the ice is -1, and the deduction for turns or steps using the second leg is -2. However, the JS 22 Singles/Pairs - Guidelines for Short Program is more specific: those grades count only if there is one three turn between jumps. If there is more than one three turn between jumps, the deduction is -2, and if there is a touchdown with the free leg or steps, then only the first jump counts as well.

Originally Posted by Doggygirl
Q2: An Axel is required for Men's SP, right? I believe the minumum is a double Axel. What would the COP negative implication be for completion of a fully rotated SINGLE Axel? Wouldn't that be a missed element? Not sure what the penalty (if any other than lack of points for the required element) is for that.
If a required jump or jump combo is not completed with at least the correct amount of revolutions, the GOE is -3 (degrees) from the base of the jump completed. For example, a 1A starts with a base of .8, and -3 degrees is a deduction of -.5, earning .3. (That's in the JS 10 Singles - Scale of Values)

For spins, not doing the required number of revolutions is minimum of -1, and in a combo spin, not doing the required number of positions is a minimum of -1, but the grade also must be negative. (So no 0/base grade if the skater doesn't do all of the positions.)

There are two types of "missed elements": not doing the proper number of rotations in a jump or spin, which earns the skater minimal, but some, points, and conditions where the skater gets no credit at all (missed element/does the wrong element or repeated element.)

I'm scratching my head, because I can't find where the requirements for SP's are listed, but Men and Ladies must perform an Axel jump of at least two revolutions.

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## Thanks as always Hockeyfan...

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For helping us all learn ever more about the COP. I appreciate the time you took to type this up.

Thanks!!!!!!!

DG

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