Irina's interview ....

Okay, so Irina called the judges pigs, called Americans stupid, bashed Sarah Hughes and Michelle Kwan...only because that is what is expected in Russia? Then she turned around and bashed America yet again by saying it;s only good for shopping? THIS is only to please the media?
Why does she continue to bring up her illness then? In Russia, wouldn't that show her weakness?

new irina

http://www.kp.ru/daily/23457/36619/

Casper said:

When you consider Irina, she does her interviews in Russian with the personality of the champion who she is there. Irina was not in the position that she could say that she was happy that Sarah had a good skate in the LP or that Michelle was wonderful in the SP. That would have been to admit defeat. That is the culture.

Irina is not in the position that Michelle is to say that she skated her best and is happy with the results. It is expected of her to explain why she lost or why she did not win.

I can remember growing up that many of the athletes interviews in Russia were the same way. Before the event they would say that they were the best and they were going to win. There was none of that stuff about having fun or enjoying themselves or trying their best. When it was over, the athletes would say things like see I told you if it was a win for them. If it was a loss, they would blame faulty judging, equipment, etc. The thought always was that the country wanted to send winners out into the world to win. People who so easily accepted defeat were not worth the time or energy of the organization.

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Why could Irina not have said that she lost because she didn't skate her best at that performance, instead of blaming the judges, her fellow competitors and the host nation of the event? That not only shows an appalling disrespect for the participants of the competition, but a lack of sportsmanship on her part. Is it acceptable in "Russian culture" for an athlete or sportsman to blame everyone else when he/she does not perform to expectations?

Also, bear in mind that Irina's comment that her win at Euros was to compensate for all the times when "I was placed 4th, and for the Olympics" were not made to a friend over tea and biscuits, it was in response to a question asked by a journalist for a newspaper, ie a public forum and thus exposes her to criticism from those who read it.

Fossi said:

Okay, so Irina called the judges pigs, called Americans stupid, bashed Sarah Hughes and Michelle Kwan...only because that is what is expected in Russia? Then she turned around and bashed America yet again by saying it;s only good for shopping? THIS is only to please the media?
Why does she continue to bring up her illness then? In Russia, wouldn't that show her weakness?

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Fossi - I have a lot of trouble with America but not the same as Irina's.

I think she might be having reactions from the medication that she is on. I can't be that hard on her. Forget the Euros and forget the judges and let's see how she skates at Worlds. If it is a good skate, she will be back to Torino.

Joe

Casper said:

Since over half of my family still live in Russia, I read from the Russian media quite a bit. Many of the athletes do not censor themselves in the Russian media like they do for the US. You really don't see the positive spin on things that those news magazine shows try to portray here.

A good example is the Russian media's take on the pairs fiasco. B&S were considered the correct winners with no questions asked. Reporters who had not even seen the skates of B&S or S&P chimed in to say that obviously B&S won rightfully because they were Russian.

To say anything else would have been unpatriotic. When you consider Irinia, she does her interviews in Russian with the personality of the champion who she is there. Irinia was not in the position that she could say that she was happy that Sarah had a good skate in the LP or that Michelle was wonderful in the SP. That would have been to admit defeat. That is the culture.

Irinia is not in the position that Michelle is to say that she skated her best and is happy with the results. It is expected of her to explain why she lost or why she did not win.

I can remember growing up that many of the athletes interviews in Russia were the same way. Before the event they would say that they were the best and they were going to win. There was none of that stuff about having fun or enjoying themselves or trying their best. When it was over, the athletes would say things like see I told you if it was a win for them. If it was a loss, they would blame faulty judging, equipment, etc. The thought always was that the country wanted to send winners out into the world to win. People who so easily accepted defeat were not worth the time or energy of the organization.

I'm not saying that I agree with her statements. I just think that it is interesting to note the differences in culture. I happen to be a big fan of Michelle. My family in Russia do not appreciate her that much because of her more laid back attitude. They think she should be more vengeful in her interviews. They thought she was very weak when she said she won the silver instead of losing the gold.

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Hmm...that's an interesting point of view. Thanks for sharing that...

I have to confess, I don't get too upset over athletes talking smack. It's more the skating that I am into.

Catfish -- a new Irina indeed. Very pretty.

Mathman

Thanks Casper. I've been saying it for years that the subjectivity in Figure Skating is cultural whether it is in the press or judging. Russia came very late to the reinassance(sp) of Europe and it's constantly proving that although late it brings the best. This was reinforced with the dictatorship that followed the monarchy.

The United States imported the reinassance(sp) with it's founding fathers but the wave of immigrants that followed were less than the best of European culture. So the Americans were always en guarde to defend its place in World culture.

Cultural subjectivity is extremely large in figure skating judging.

As to the press, I believe Russia covers the sport more than the Americans who treat it like it was for little girls and harsh words should never be spoken.

Joe

Thank you for sharing this insight...

Casper said:

Since over half of my family still live in Russia, I read from the Russian media quite a bit. Many of the athletes do not censor themselves in the Russian media like they do for the US. You really don't see the positive spin on things that those news magazine shows try to portray here.

A good example is the Russian media's take on the pairs fiasco. B&S were considered the correct winners with no questions asked. Reporters who had not even seen the skates of B&S or S&P chimed in to say that obviously B&S won rightfully because they were Russian.

To say anything else would have been unpatriotic. When you consider Irinia, she does her interviews in Russian with the personality of the champion who she is there. Irinia was not in the position that she could say that she was happy that Sarah had a good skate in the LP or that Michelle was wonderful in the SP. That would have been to admit defeat. That is the culture.

Irinia is not in the position that Michelle is to say that she skated her best and is happy with the results. It is expected of her to explain why she lost or why she did not win.

I can remember growing up that many of the athletes interviews in Russia were the same way. Before the event they would say that they were the best and they were going to win. There was none of that stuff about having fun or enjoying themselves or trying their best. When it was over, the athletes would say things like see I told you if it was a win for them. If it was a loss, they would blame faulty judging, equipment, etc. The thought always was that the country wanted to send winners out into the world to win. People who so easily accepted defeat were not worth the time or energy of the organization.

I'm not saying that I agree with her statements. I just think that it is interesting to note the differences in culture. I happen to be a big fan of Michelle. My family in Russia do not appreciate her that much because of her more laid back attitude. They think she should be more vengeful in her interviews. They thought she was very weak when she said she won the silver instead of losing the gold.

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Since the advent of the world wide web, and our ability to more easily connect with people of other languages and cultures around the world, I find these insights very helpful. It helps me understand why the Russian v. American press interviews turn out so very differently. Thanks for taking the time to write this!!

DG

Casper said:

Since over half of my family still live in Russia, I read from the Russian media quite a bit. Many of the athletes do not censor themselves in the Russian media like they do for the US. You really don't see the positive spin on things that those news magazine shows try to portray here.

A good example is the Russian media's take on the pairs fiasco. B&S were considered the correct winners with no questions asked. Reporters who had not even seen the skates of B&S or S&P chimed in to say that obviously B&S won rightfully because they were Russian.

To say anything else would have been unpatriotic. When you consider Irinia, she does her interviews in Russian with the personality of the champion who she is there. Irinia was not in the position that she could say that she was happy that Sarah had a good skate in the LP or that Michelle was wonderful in the SP. That would have been to admit defeat. That is the culture.

Irinia is not in the position that Michelle is to say that she skated her best and is happy with the results. It is expected of her to explain why she lost or why she did not win.

I can remember growing up that many of the athletes interviews in Russia were the same way. Before the event they would say that they were the best and they were going to win. There was none of that stuff about having fun or enjoying themselves or trying their best. When it was over, the athletes would say things like see I told you if it was a win for them. If it was a loss, they would blame faulty judging, equipment, etc. The thought always was that the country wanted to send winners out into the world to win. People who so easily accepted defeat were not worth the time or energy of the organization.

I'm not saying that I agree with her statements. I just think that it is interesting to note the differences in culture. I happen to be a big fan of Michelle. My family in Russia do not appreciate her that much because of her more laid back attitude. They think she should be more vengeful in her interviews. They thought she was very weak when she said she won the silver instead of losing the gold.

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Wow. :frown2: I think I'm going to have to change my thinking on some things.

Not so very long ago in American history...

A figure in the public eye saying ANYTHING seemingly sympathetic towards a Russian would have landed you on a black list (or worse) for being a communist sympathizer. Every aspect of any culture over time has it's good and bad moments. We would all be wise to keep history and cultural differences in mind before jumping to conclusions or passing judgements when reading translated materials from any other country that is not "home."

DG

I think as Casper says, it's probably quite true that adult Russians aren't quick to deviate publicly from the 'party line'---i.e., the 'official' view of a sports issue.

The official view is, no doubt, that Russian athletes are the best in the world, and when they lose, it must be because of chicanery or bias. This is Russian figure skating as seen by Valentin Piseev, head of the RFSF, who always speaks of upcoming figure skating competitions in terms of Russian gold medals. Last year's Worlds was the only big competition in recent history where he was expecting no gold medals in Ladies. Even earlier this season, he gave an interview where he lamented the state of the Ladies for Worlds in Moscow (he actually said something to the effect that Irina's best days were behind her!). Of course, that was before Irina skated in the GP and won the GPF. No doubt Irina felt the sting of Piseev's words and that was what fueled her early successes in the GP.

Piseev is now expecting 4 gold medals in Moscow.

chuckm said:

Piseev is now expecting 4 gold medals in Moscow.

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Definitely in Men's. Probably in Ladies. Probably in Dance. Pairs are the scary one. The only thing that would save this from ranting and raging is to have the mix of the judges known. All this is based on good skating that night.

Joe

I'm just waiting to see who the tech controller and tech specialists are going to be, never mind the judges. I have a feeling some of us are going to be dismayed when we find out.

chuckm said:

I think as Casper says, it's probably quite true that adult Russians aren't quick to deviate publicly from the 'party line'---i.e., the 'official' view of a sports issue.
Even earlier this season, he gave an interview where he lamented the state of the Ladies for Worlds in Moscow (he actually said something to the effect that Irina's best days were behind her!). Of course, that was before Irina skated in the GP and won the GPF. No doubt Irina felt the sting of Piseev's words and that was what fueled her early successes in the GP.
.

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Actually it was a Russian Journalist who said the Russian ladies are washed up and Irina's best days were behind her, also how the American/Japanese ladies will outskate them. Piseev has been very supportive of Irina and her skating.

Okay, so Irina called the judges pigs, called Americans stupid, bashed Sarah Hughes and Michelle Kwan...only because that is what is expected in Russia? Then she turned around and bashed America yet again by saying it;s only good for shopping? THIS is only to please the media?

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Again, I'm not defending Irina. I don't read all of her interviews because I'm not a big fan of hers. My post was referring to the cultural differences in media interviews.

Irina appears to be typical of many of us who were children of the USSR and then expected to change our way of life after its collapse. I moved to the United States in 1994, only a little while after things began to change in Moscow. Before things fell apart we were very anti-American. It is what we were taught in school, home, by the media, etc. Those who went to sports schools were pumped up to get the confidence to believe that they could beat anyone in the World. My sister is an example of that. She was trained by the government in a sports school for tennis. Though a good tennis player, she was not on the level of other competitors. I can remember one particular match she played where she was beaten badly by the other player who was from the US. Afterward, we were flying back home and her coach kept telling her that she had done well. He was pounding it into her that the only reason she lost was because she had played on American soil. This was typical at the time. Even now, she has this suspicion and distrust for all things that are American or even Western European. She stayed with my father in Moscow when my mom and I moved to the US in 1994.

I can remember it being taught to us that we had to be the best at whatever we did. It was a testiment to the way of life in the USSR to beat people of another country. After the USSR was no more, those lessons are hard to lose. If you aren't competing for the state then what are you doing out there? It's not as it is in the US. Here, my daughter takes skating lessons because she loves it. She begged me to do it. I don't recall anyone that I knew in Moscow ever requesting lessons for a sport. We were tested and put into sports, classes, etc. that we had natural talent for at the time. I know with my sister there was no love for the sport of tennis. She played because that was what she was supposed to do.

I don't know Irina's history or feelings about the sport, but it is possible that it is the same type of thing.

Why does she continue to bring up her illness then? In Russia, wouldn't that show her weakness?

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No, it does not show her as weak. She is considered very strong to keep competing. I have not seen her do it, but I assume that it would work as an excuse as well. It's different than calling it a bad skate when there is a physical reason for the problem.

Think about it...

"I had a bad skate. I don't know what happened out there. I'll do better next time."

vs.

"I did the best I could today, but I came down with the flu yesterday. I haven't slept since I started feeling sick, but once I'm back to 100% then you really will see how tough of a competitor I am. Just think, if I land 5 triples while I'm running a fever, I can land 7 when I am feeling well."

russians are always expected to win. they don't go to competitions to have a good time or do their best like other countries.

curious said:

russians are always expected to win. they don't go to competitions to have a good time or do their best like other countries.

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Maybe that's why skaters like Irina are so deluded about their performances and so bitter when they don't win.