European Championships Judging Scandal?

R.D. · Jan 31, 2005

Article from the UK:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ma...31.xml&sSheet=/sport/2005/01/31/ixothspt.html

Even Cop couldn't prevent this one from happening...and another reason Irina is a shoo-in for the gold at worlds even if she sits on the ice...:sheesh:

Vash01 · Feb 1, 2005

Everyone here seems to forget that 1)Irina had a sizable lead in the SP, and 2) all the other ladies- including Poykiyo whom Witt is supporting- made mistakes.

The system is not perfect but to call it a scandal would just turn people away from FS.

Is Witt upset that Irina matched her 6 European titles?

Vash

JonnyCoop · Feb 1, 2005

Vash01 said:
Is Witt upset that Irina matched her 6 European titles?

Vash

Probably not to the extent that Sonja Henie was spinning in her grave when Witt matched HER 6 European titles. :laugh:

And if Irina wins #7, Witt probably ain't gonna be the one to throw her the party....

R.D. · Feb 1, 2005

I think the debate here is Irina shouldn't have won the freeskate, not that she shouldn't have won the competition. In other words, her scores were a little "inflated".

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 1, 2005

Red Dog - Where did you get this British review? Verrrry interrrrrresting.

All sportspeople have bad days. There is no reason why top tier figure skaters are supposed to be exempt from that phenomenon. It doesn't mean she is not the best figure skater in the world. It does mean she is being held up as she was in Dortmund. Poykio should have been in 8th place in Dortmund. It's not just my opinion but the opinion of many knowledgeable fans who were there. We'll see if Poykio should have won the LP in Torino.

Irina is far and above the most favored skater in the world. She will win the worlds. No contest.

Joe

mzheng · Feb 1, 2005

Vash01 said:
Is Witt upset that Irina matched her 6 European titles?

Nah. Irina has too much in this life to catch up to what Witt's had in FS.

Chill out, no body here say Irina should not win the overall, her SP lead ensured that. Just that she shouldn't win the free.

Besides it is from a British newspaper. They could've just quoted part of Witt's interview. She could've said Irina deserved win overall in her German interview. Just like Irina give two versions in English and her native language.

gkelly · Feb 1, 2005

Joesitz said:
Poykio should have been in 8th place in Dortmund.

Ahead of Rochette?

Piel · Feb 1, 2005

Maybe God gave me this medal for my illnesses."

:disapp: Please tell me that she didn't really say this. I admire Irina's courage but the idea of her receiving "sympathy points" is so unfair to the other skaters.

brad640 · Feb 1, 2005

Ottavio Cinquanta, president of the International Skating Union, said that small changes could be made to the system at the technical committee's meeting in June but major changes could not be instigated until the congress in June 2006, well after the Olympic Games. (emphasis added)

This is very reassuring!

Doggygirl · Feb 1, 2005

mzheng said:
Chill out, no body here say Irina should not win the overall, her SP lead ensured that. Just that she shouldn't win the free.

And there is that rarely mentioned single axel of Susanna's. While Susanna can't control what the judges do with PCS score, she CAN control her technical content, and has to take responsibility for executing it. A clean double axel, and Susanna WOULD have won the free skate regardless of whether anyone thinks the PCS scores were right or wrong.

I could understand the outrage a WHOLE lot more had even one of the top ladies at Euro's had a clean skate. But the fact is, none of the top contendors did. Irina left the door wide open, but nobody soundly walked through. Had Julia, Susanna, or the Elena's had a great skate, then all the wuzrobbing would be justified IMO.

I take Irina's comments to be an acknowledgement of a less than stellar skate, and a feeling of luck or something that she won. I consider that to be similar to Michelle's reaction at US Nats. She KNEW and acknowldeged it wasn't the skate she wanted to put out there. I'm sure she's grateful for the win anyway. If the top tier favorites leave doors wide open, but nobody else steps up, then Oh Well.

DG

mzheng · Feb 1, 2005

Doggygirl said:
And there is that rarely mentioned single axel of Susanna's. While Susanna can't control what the judges do with PCS score, she CAN control her technical content, and has to take responsibility for executing it. A clean double axel, and Susanna WOULD have won the free skate regardless of whether anyone thinks the PCS scores were right or wrong.

DG

According to someone in the building posted at ISU board (Andy). From the ice surface usage(choreo), speed, ice coverage, power, etc (theses are the majore arguments from those who said Irina should've won LP anyway). among the top 3, Elena Liashinco should've won LP. Irina's speed and ice coverage and power in this performance diddn't hold her up that much in PCS scores over the others. She did placed ahead of Susanna and rightly so. But she should've win LP.

http://forums.isu.org/viewtopic.php?t=675&start=90

hockeyfan228 · Feb 1, 2005

gkelly said:
Ahead of Rochette?

Why do you assume that Joesitz would have had Rochette as low as 8th?

wvgal57 · Feb 1, 2005

Seems Andy at the ISU boards doesn't think Irina crawled around out there at all. He says she maintained pretty well her speed through the program but even with her obvious off night skated as fast as some and even or faster than the others. Very impressed with Liashenko too!

Great to read a review from somebody actually in the building. ..

I think it's obvious she had an off night and I don't think it's anything to worry about.

Most interesting too, his take on Irina's pure power. Not masculine but pure power.. and just think about it, this was on an off night!!

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 1, 2005

gkelly said:
Ahead of Rochette?

You're right. I should have said ninth. Wasn't that where Irina finished?

Joe

hockeyfan228 · Feb 1, 2005

Joesitz said:
You're right. I should have said ninth. Wasn't that where Irina finished?

Joe

I am surprised that you would have had Rochette and Poykio as low as 8th and 9th.

R.D. · Feb 1, 2005

Joesitz said:
Red Dog - Where did you get this British review? Verrrry interrrrrresting.

I got the link off of another forum, and I thought it was interesting enough to share here...

Eeyora · Feb 2, 2005

Poor Irina I hope she isn't portrayed as a villian in the US coverage.

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 2, 2005

Eeyora said:
Poor Irina I hope she isn't portrayed as a villian in the US coverage.

The Japanese will be presenting 3 excellent Ladies for the Worlds and the USA will be presenting 2. If Irina skates the best she will win but if she doesn't and is held up then whooooa. We will have 7 pages of discussion in Golden Skate.

And don't forget the Canadians have one as does the Finns.

Joe

Vash01 · Feb 2, 2005

Joesitz said:
The Japanese will be presenting 3 excellent Ladies for the Worlds and the USA will be presenting 2. If Irina skates the best she will win but if she doesn't and is held up then whooooa. We will have 7 pages of discussion in Golden Skate.

And don't forget the Canadians have one as does the Finns.

Joe

There are people that absolutely dislike Irina because she does not fit the image of the pretty lady. Even if she gives a stellar performance, we will hear cries of injustice, held up, collusion, etc.

Kuchana · Feb 3, 2005

JonnyCoop said:
Probably not to the extent that Sonja Henie was spinning in her grave when Witt matched HER 6 European titles. And if Irina wins #7, Witt probably ain't gonna be the one to throw her the party....

Well Irina can't match Witt's 2 OGMs! :laugh:

If Irina skates like the way she did at Europeans, there is no way in heck she'll have any hope of winning Worlds (unless the judges hold her up!) And if they do and the other skaters skate better than her, I will be very pissed. But in Irina's defense, I think she just had an off-night performance. She knew she didn't have to really worry about the other skaters (although it does sound like she eased up just a little bit more than she should have). But hopefully we'll see all of the ladies do their best at worlds.

As for Irina's comment??? All I gotta say is :sheesh: if she did say that in that context.

And as for OC's comments about small and major changes made to the COP system, hah! I'll believe it when it actually happens.

Another article about the "judging." Check this link out:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050131/SKATE31/TPSports/TopStories

"Since the very first day, it was quite evident that the judging in some cases made no sense at all," said Sonia Bianchetti, a former member of the ISU council. "This is particularly true in the program component marks, where most skaters got nearly the same for all parts.

"It clearly seems that judges base their marks on the reputation of the skater and his, her previous personal record and not on what is actually performed on the ice."

Stapleford said she is not saying the new system doesn't have its good points, but the ISU has set up an anonymous system in which dishonest judges "are home and cooled out."

She said she has received calls from many judges who are afraid to dish out marks that may be seen to be out of line with others. Along with the new judging system came a new method of assessment in which a computer picks out judges who seem to be giving marks that are too high or two low.

"You've got to give judges freedom to judge independently," she said, "[otherwise] all the work we've done for 25 years to get to the point has been for nothing."

European Championships Judging Scandal?

R.D.

Vash01

JonnyCoop

R.D.

Joesitz (RIP)

mzheng

gkelly

Piel

On Edge

brad640

Doggygirl

mzheng

hockeyfan228

wvgal57

Joesitz (RIP)

hockeyfan228

R.D.

Eeyora

Joesitz (RIP)

Vash01

Kuchana

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