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Thread: 2002 Olympic Ladies Scores

  1. #1
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    2002 Olympic Ladies Scores

    I watched both Sarah Hughes and Irina Slutskaya's Olympic LP's to see what the marks were. Since in the NBC broadcast, the screen went immediately from Irina's scores to Sarah and Robin Wagner breaking down in tears of joy.
    I couldn't figure out what the ordinals were.....
    This is what I gathered from what I saw.
    Sarah won the first place votes of the German, Italian, Canadian and USA judges ( the Finnish judge had Irina and Sarah virtually tied with a 5.7/5.8 and 5.8/5.7, and I don't remember what the tiebreaker was in that competition.) Irina had the judges from Slovakia, Russia, Denmark, Belarus.

    What were the other scores ( and ordinals) for the other ladies of the top 4 ( MK and Sasha) because I'm curious how this all broke down on paper.


    Thank you

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    Custom Title heyang's Avatar
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    Here's a link to ice calc

    2002 Oly' Ladies Free Skate results

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    Thanks for the link.
    I notice that the ordinals were all over the place!
    There are so many different ways that it all could have gone!

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Interesting. The ISU does not reveal the nationalities of the judges.

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    I noticed that too.....but if you look at your tapes from the competitions, you'll find out what countries they were from.....
    The judges in that comp were in order:
    Germany
    Russia
    Slovak Republic
    Denmark
    Italy
    Belarus
    Finland
    Canada
    USA

    The 5-4 split went down on West/East lines. One of the judges had Sasha in second ( The Russian one)
    two had Sarah in fourth , with Irina in first. MK had 5 2nd place ordinals to Sarah's 5 1st place ordinals.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aviva_dawn
    MK had 5 2nd place ordinals to Sarah's 5 1st place ordinals.
    But actually Sarah had little to do with it. Under OBO judging, what the gold medal came down to was the fact that Irina had 6 first and second place votes (including a second from the U.S. judge), to Michelle's five. Change Inman's third place for Michelle to second and Michelle wins the gold medal.

    BTW, under CoP scoring Irina surely would have won. The eastern bloc judges who put Sarah fourth, had they given her correspondingly low component scores, would have brought the average down below Irina's.

    Mathman
    Last edited by Mathman; 02-07-2005 at 10:55 PM.

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    What did the US judge vote for Tara or Michelle at 1998 Olympics?

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    Mathman:

    That's what it was???? I didn't and still don't understand the 6.0 system, especially when it comes to ordinals.....
    Thanks for clarifying Mathman.

    If the above had happened, would it have been MK, Irina, Sarah or MK, Irina, Sasha?

    Thank you

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    In the free skate, Sarah, Michelle, Irina, Sasha.

    Overall, Michelle, Sarah, Irina, Sasha.

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    Did US judge vote for Kwan at 1998 Olympics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzheng
    Did US judge vote for Kwan at 1998 Olympics?
    Yes, the US judge picked MK over Tara in 1998.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soogar
    Yes, the US judge picked MK over Tara in 1998.
    Thanks. I was brewing the racial bias theory, but now your answer killed my 'theory'.

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    The Russian judge, Tatiana Danilenko, was one of two judges who placed Sarah 4th in the FS (the other was Slovak). Danilenko placed Sarah TENTH in the SP.

    Danilenko also placed Fumie Suguri 13th in the SP (Fumie was 7th) and 8th in the FS (Fumie was 5th).

    Had the competition been scored under CoP, Sarah would have been WAY lower than 4th place in the SP. Maria Butyrskaya would likely have been in 3rd after the SP and might have edged Sarah for bronze.
    Last edited by chuckm; 02-08-2005 at 09:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    But actually Sarah had little to do with it. Under OBO judging, what the gold medal came down to was the fact that Irina had 6 first and second place votes (including a second from the U.S. judge), to Michelle's five. Change Inman's third place for Michelle to second and Michelle wins the gold medal.
    NO, no, that would have happened only under the old majority ordinal accounting system (what the U.S. still uses domestically) -- the New York Times article that mentioned this got it wrong. Under the OBO accounting system (what was in effect at the SLC Olympics), Kwan would have needed *at least 2 judges* to have placed her ahead of Slutskaya -- I don't have the exact details memorized, but will attempt to find the detailed, explanatory post from the Skatefans mailing list archives.

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    Here's the link to the detailed explanatory post by a Canadian accountant on Skatefans (the quoted excerpts were from the New York Times article by Selena Roberts published on 2/23/02):
    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/82554

    To summarize:
    "In order for Kwan to have placed ahead of Slutskaya she needed another win [a term used in OBO] which means that she needed 2 more jifs [="judges in favor"] against Slutskaya or 2 more jifs against Hughes since one needs 5 jifs for a win---this guy is wrong. They all seem to be looking at this like we're still using majority for place."

    I actually sent this summary in to the New York Times, hoping they would print a correction, but, alas, never heard anything back from them.

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