2002 Olympic Ladies Scores | Page 4 | Golden Skate

2002 Olympic Ladies Scores

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
mzheng said:
:rock: Exactly.

The bottom line Sarah's skating in SOI will not help attract new fans to the sport.

I was attracted to FS by first watched Peggy's show skating. Back then in china that was the only Figure Skating program they aired. Late after came to the states I was addict to the pro competetion and show, back then they were all very high quality. It was not until 1995/1996 that I start pay attention to amature skating. The good quality show skating help attracting new skating fan, but not by Sarah's skating quality these days.

I agree that the quality of show skating is very important in attracting new fans to the sport. The golden days of pro skating were after the 1988 Olympics to 1994. Once the pro competitions multiplied and pro skaters were doing the same programs over and over again did skating die in popularity. I also think that pro skating declined because after 1994, they centered a lot of competitions on Oksana and Nancy. Oksana had a lot of trouble adjusting though she's picked up her skating now, but Nancy was like Sarah in that she had no pride in her skating. Nancy was horrible and I think that it turned a lot of viewers off to see her bumbling through her programs. It's really important to have good skaters skate in these exhibitions and shows. First of all, a tickets to SOI for a family of 3 (or even 2) probably constitute at least half a week's paycheck. When you spend quality money, you want to see quality skating. I would never pay money to see Sarah skate b/c if I want to see double jumps and wobbly spirals, I can go to my local club show. It's sad that Kat Witt, who never had a 3-3 combo and only 2 different triples and who is in her late 30's, can still do a double axel and SArah can't even manage that. And it's even sadder that Sarah and Kat are both OGMs.
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
mzheng said:
With all respect to those still working their butt off for OGM, and stay on top of the sports, they are much better off than grab the gold then dissappares.
What a surprise, olympic eligible skaters are at the top of their game.; They need to be at the top of their game to have a shot at the OGM. About grab the gold and disappears, that is call living in a free country, and having the freedom to choose whatever they want to do with their life after they have accomplished a major life goal. And they achieved it at an age younger than their competitors

MK just set the new perspective of OGM by not winning the OGM but had more fame than either of past three OGM.
I don't debate that, but the gold medalists won the medals fair and square, they moved on and are doing show skating, and no amount of bitter put down can take their medals away. Maybe being famous is not the goal of the past three OGM. I don't know about Baiul, Tara and Sarah both set goals to be OGM the moment they laced up as kids. They achieved their dreams at 15, and 16, so what if they "grab the gold then disappear" there is no big brother around to dictate what they must do post OGM.

The contractry just make fans wondering OGM really a great skater? Hardly if you look at Sarah skated at SOI.
Being a great skater has nothing to do with medals. I don't know what sets the criteria for being a great skater, some fans may say Yuka, some think MK. Olympic gold medalists means they achieved the highest in the sports at the moment that count the most.

The bottom line Sarah's skating in SOI will not help attract new fans to the sport
So that is the bottom line, we gone through Sarah is a bad influence on young skaters, to her skating won't help attract new fans. Why should it be the responsibility of pro skaters to attract new fans to the sports? I thought the bottom line is about skating one's best when it count the most, I thought it is about fulfiling one's goals,

I speculate one of the bottom line for such bitterness towards Sarah is that she beat some fans favorites ;) at a competition that counted the most
 
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brad640

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
soogar said:
Tara had really powerful stroking plus a 3-3 combo and 3-3 sequence... it would be really close but I would have to give it to Tara. Tara had the look of a champion and skated like one as well. You can't say that about Sarah, Sasha nor Michelle. Tara was a true gem.

I agree that Tara was something special for skating. I have to laugh whenever an up-and coming-skater is labeled the next Tara (Kimmie Meisner, Danielle Kahle). Most likely, skating will never see anyone like Tara again. At 15 she was as tough a competitor as Plushenko is now, or as Katarina Witt was in her day. Tara became obsessed with the 3-3's that ultimately led to her injuries that forced her out altogether. She knew that to beat Michelle Kwan she could not just match her on jumps, she had to far excede what anyone else was doing. I am also suspicious when Sarah's program is described as "the most difficult of all time." Although I give credit to Robin Wagner for completely reworking the program to improve it for the Olympics, Sarah had multiple jumps that were possibly cheated and she lacked energy throughout the program. Tara on the other hand had unlimited energy. I will always remeber her hitting her ending pose for a brief second and then running across the ice, where most skaters are ready to collapse after finishing Olympic competition. After that, Tara endured scathing hatred from the media who thought she should have stepped aside to let Kwan have the gold. Tara should be credited with raising the level of competition in Nagano to a high level - the silver or bronze performances that year would have easily won gold in SLC.
 

swannanoa54

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
I don't debate that, but the gold medalists won the medals fair and square, they moved on and are doing show skating, and no amount of bitter put down can take their medals away.

Why do people always say that? "No amount of bitter putdown can take their medals away?" You know, that has got to be the most repeated remark I have heard in regards to Sarah since she won her OGM. I haven't heard it as much towards Tara, but it always seems that people say "they can't take her OGM away". Who's trying? Let's be more original than that. Just say some fans are bitter over the SLC judging from the beginning to the end no matter who their favorites were/are.

Personally, I thought Sarah had the BEST LP of the night. Kwan lost the gold by falling on her flip. Irina skated like a head-grabbing, over-the-top actress with no acting skills. Neither did their best. I do believe, however, that the judges would have given Kwan the gold if she had stayed on her feet. Once Sarah skated that awesome LP, IMO, some of the judges were trying to figure out a way to give Irina the gold. Other than that, I think Irina and Kwan just gave it to Sarah on a gold platter. Do I think Sarah deserved the gold with just that LP skate? Probably not, but hey, she won. And Irina won silver. And Michelle won bronze. Nothing wrong with winning an olympic medal no matter what the color is.

As far as the 98 Olys go, Kwan could have won had she come out more on fire. It was a beautiful, well-executed program, but she didn't have her spark. I think she was just trying to do it without mistakes. To me, that cost her the gold. I think it could have gone either way. And while I've never liked Tara's skating, I can't fault her for winning.

As for Baiul-well, I was no Kerrigan fan until she had that amazing skate at the Olys. And I thought she won.

All in all, the past is the past. And while Sarah's skating in SOI may, in some opinions, not draw new skating fans into skating, she's still the OGM and most people only associate figure skating with that medal. That, in and of itself, is an accomplishment. Kudos to her!
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
gezando said:
So that is the bottom line, we gone through Sarah is a bad influence on young skaters, to her skating won't help attract new fans. Why should it be the responsibility of pro skaters to attract new fans to the sports? I thought the bottom line is about skating one's best when it count the most, I thought it is about fulfiling one's goals,

I speculate one of the bottom line for such bitterness towards Sarah is that she beat some fans favorites ;) at a competition that counted the most

The thing start with the role model mention. I'll go back to the role modle.

After seeing Sarah's performance at SOI I doubt how many FS coaches and parents will take she as a role model on ice. The more likely coaches told the young skater "proper excercises, proper eating habit, self dicipline and self respect are very important in figure skating. otherwise your skating skill will regress as fast as Saraha's". If coach and/or parents chose role modle for young skaters on ice there are plenty others can be chosen from this exclusive OGM club or out of the club, Peggy, Dorthy,Krist, anyone alive in this club is better and even some others not in that club like Yuka. etc.

As far as the exclusive OGM club goes. I speculate what the other members think after they see Sarah's SOI shape and performance. She let herself show in SOI like this just proves that she dosn't care to be a role modle on ice. Lack of respect to the OGM. If an OGM dose not respect the OG, how do you expect general public respect her? If coach and/or parents chose role modle for young skaters there are plenty others can be chosen from this exclusive OGM club or out of the club, Peggy, Dorthy,Krist, anyone alive in this club is better.

Sarah won that LP fair and squear. Now, I'm not bitter at all for Sarah beaten Michelle at SLC. Michelle is still here stands high, that's what I am proud of her and that's why she became my ultmate favorates. Had Michelle won in SLC and retired, I might not be a fan like today.

Now had Sarah chose to stay in Yale chase her another goal that some kept harping on "She won the OGM achieve the goal and move on to her other goal in life". I'd be more respect to her. She sure has the right to change her mind do whatever she like. But being a OGM and being harped on good role modle for young kids, but let herself slack down like that, I sure don't want my kid take her as a roll modle. Actually, the other day my daughter watched her skating on TV, she was like "OMG, this is Sarah? How can she let herself slack down like that?". As for role modle off ice, never mind there are a lot kids have more academic achievement than her.
 
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fscric

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Mzheng

I always enjoy your posts about Michelle, and your posts about other skaters are mostly fair. However, I think this post about Sarah is a bit too harsh. I can understand your grievances about her being out of shape, however, saying her a bad role model because of this is not appropriate, imho. You can say she's not professional and does not respect those who bought the tickets to watch an OGM skates, but it has nothing to do with whether or not she's a role model; it's not like she won the medal in the current shape, so how can the kids mistake it as the state she was in when she won the OGM? There are people who accept Sarah's current shape, so why don't you step back and relax, just concentrate on what Michelle will offer for as long as she stays eligible. I certainly enjoy whatever information you can pass about Michelle.
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
fscric, well I just simply disagree that she is 'the best role modle'. I didn't use the word 'bad'.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Some comments:

Irina's performance at SLC wasn't a hair- and face-grabbing one. Irina did that at the GP, but her performance at SLC was marked by a total lack of characterization. Her performance was slow and flat, and devoid of Irina's usual energy and personality. It was the lack of spark and zip that caused her to lose, not just the problems on the flip.

I can understand why some people are turned off by Sarah in SOI. She the headliner in a pro show where her skating skills are way below those of the rest of the cast, and after nearly two months on the road, there hasn't been any improvement. Even in her last days with SOI, Tara with an injured hip could manage a couple of triples and a 2A. Sarah, three years out from her Olympic win, can't even do the jumps that 2005 Novice champion Rachel Flatt can do in her sleep.
 

brad640

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
mzheng said:
As for role modle off ice, never mind there are a lot kids have more academic achievement than her.

I am dissapointed for Sarah that it has come to this in such a short time. She was a great talent, but unfortunately it has all gone down hill since SLC. I feel that Sarah's success was dependent on Robin Wagner, who was exceedingly ambitious and gave everything she had to Sarah. Before SLC Robin took a big risk by adding the extra 3-3 to Sarah's program knowing she would need it to medal. Sarah was a hard working pupil but did not have ambition for her skating once separated from Robin.

After she won the gold, she used it to get into Yale. It is well known that Olympic medals and even competing as an elite athlete can open the door in Ivy League admissions, but once there, she may have been out of her league academically. I remember her talking about studying for the SATs every morning with Robin on the way to the rink. She said after she won that her plan was to go to a top medical school, and it sounded like she was hoping to follow in the footsteps of Tenley Albright as OGM/MD. However, things are much different from when Tenley was skating and skaters had time to train and go to school full time. Debbi Thomas completed medical school, but she had great determination after her Olympic experience to move past skating and take her life in a different direction. I think once Sarah started college she began to think "I am the OGM, why should I have to spend hours studying to compete with these people when I could easily cash in on other opportunities?" So she dropped out of Yale and went to SOI and sadly she has not been prepared athletically.

It is hard to watch this happening to her because she is a nice person. Hopefully she will not sink to the level Oksana did with alcoholism and becoming estranged from loved ones. Her recent comments about possibly competing in 2006 suggest that she is not yet ready to face reality.
 

Sylvia

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
brad640 said:
After she won the gold, she used it to get into Yale. It is well known that Olympic medals and even competing as an elite athlete can open the door in Ivy League admissions, but once there, she may have been out of her league academically. <snip>
So she dropped out of Yale and went to SOI...
As I understand it, Sarah has taken a leave of absence from Yale this year and was allowed to do so because she did well enough academically her freshman year.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Sarah was constantly studying for the SATs because she wanted to achieve a perfect score (I thought that was a pretty weird goal). She never revealed whether or not she did achieve her goal, but I'm sure she had a high SAT score.

She is on a LOA from Yale, but if she stays out for a second year, she will have to re-apply for admittance. Sarah talks about 2006 because she wants to keep her options open. She had to get a sanction from the USFS to be able to skate in SOI without losing her status as an eligible. The USFS would give her the sanction only if she stated her intention to return to competition in the future.

I believe Sarah doesn't really know what she wants at this time. Right now, she has a lot of options, but if she doesn't make a serious effort to get back in shape and regain her skating skills, not all of those options will be available to her a year from now.
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Sylvia said:
As I understand it, Sarah has taken a leave of absence from Yale this year and was allowed to do so because she did well enough academically her freshman year.


Being in good standing academically isn't necessarily doing well (or at least well enough to get into med school). Once admitted, all schools allow students to take a leave of absence if they are in good standing.

Debi Thomas:
Debi's situation was really different than Sarah's. For one thing, Debi was already halfway through Stanford when she competed in 1988 so the reality of her becoming a physician was already partially completed. Also Debi did not win the OGM which I think really affected her offers. Plus as an educated black woman, perhaps she did not feel comfortable touring with the other skaters. In Scott's book, he talked about how Debi was on SOI and that she really wasn't motivated b/c she wanted a life outside skating and that she had a conflict with Orser b/c Orser felt she wasn't skating that well. When Scott spoke with Debi she said it was hard b/c all of her friends were outside skating and couldn't understand what she was doing. From my standpoint, Debi probably was a very intense student and had to overcome a lot of obstacles, I can't imagine her fitting in with Kat and Scott socially. Skaters for the most part have their lives centered around skating and that's all they think about. I think that would make for limited conversation.

Everyone will probably bring up Paul Wylie, but he's a different person from Debi with different experiences. Paul has a really strong connection to skating. He even returned to skating by doing choreo and skating with SOI b/c he missed it so much. He said in an interview that something was really lacking in his day job and that his true self was expressed on the ice (I'm paraphrasing here).
 
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swannanoa54

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
brad640 said:
I am dissapointed for Sarah that it has come to this in such a short time. She was a great talent, but unfortunately it has all gone down hill since SLC. I feel that Sarah's success was dependent on Robin Wagner, who was exceedingly ambitious and gave everything she had to Sarah. Before SLC Robin took a big risk by adding the extra 3-3 to Sarah's program knowing she would need it to medal. Sarah was a hard working pupil but did not have ambition for her skating once separated from Robin.

After she won the gold, she used it to get into Yale. It is well known that Olympic medals and even competing as an elite athlete can open the door in Ivy League admissions, but once there, she may have been out of her league academically. I remember her talking about studying for the SATs every morning with Robin on the way to the rink. She said after she won that her plan was to go to a top medical school, and it sounded like she was hoping to follow in the footsteps of Tenley Albright as OGM/MD. However, things are much different from when Tenley was skating and skaters had time to train and go to school full time. Debbi Thomas completed medical school, but she had great determination after her Olympic experience to move past skating and take her life in a different direction. I think once Sarah started college she began to think "I am the OGM, why should I have to spend hours studying to compete with these people when I could easily cash in on other opportunities?" So she dropped out of Yale and went to SOI and sadly she has not been prepared athletically.

It is hard to watch this happening to her because she is a nice person. Hopefully she will not sink to the level Oksana did with alcoholism and becoming estranged from loved ones. Her recent comments about possibly competing in 2006 suggest that she is not yet ready to face reality.

Well, that's just as far-fetched as you can possibly get. Have you asked Sarah these questions? I mean really. Consider the fact that Sarah was taking advance placement courses in high school. Consider the fact that she scored very high on her SATs. Consider the fact that she already had her pick of colleges before she became an OGM. With that said, by all accounts, she did well in her freshman year. She wanted to take the time off to enjoy the college freshman experience. And why shouldn't she? She's no dummy by any means.

I seriously doubt she will "sink to Oksana's level" mainly because her family circumstances were/are not the same as Oksana's were. Oksana, emotionally and mentally, was incapable of handling the pressure of being the OGMedalist. Sarah wasn't. So her jumps are gone for now. Who knows if she'll get them back.

mzheng, I think Sarah is an outstanding role model for young people. She achieved what she aimed for in both her academic life (so far) and her figure skating career. That means you can have your cake and eat it too.

chuckm, I thought Irina's LP at SLC was filled with the normal head-grabbing, hair pulling that her Tosca has always represented. That's not presentation. So I didn't get the higher presentation scores. Never did like that LP anyway. :rofl:
 

liberal

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
mzheng said:
Now, I'm not bitter at all for Sarah beaten Michelle at SLC.
Of course you are bitter, why else the relentless maligning of Sarah? Being fixated on Sarah with massive posting here and others boards say a lot about your bitter disappointment of Michelle failure to win the OGM.
Really the same could be said about several others on this board, so you are not alone.

Quote from Sylvia
“As I understand it, Sarah has taken a leave of absence from Yale this year and was allowed to do so because she did well enough academically her freshman year.”

Yes, I believe this has been written in a skating magazine or a newspaper release, can remember which or I would provide a link.

But really no need for truth when making up “stuff” about Sarah is much more conducive for more put downs.
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
liberal said:
Of course you are bitter, why else the relentless maligning of Sarah? Being fixated on Sarah with massive posting here and others boards say a lot about your bitter disappointment of Michelle failure to win the OGM.
Really the same could be said about several others on this board, so you are not alone.
......
But really no need for truth when making up “stuff” about Sarah is much more conducive for more put downs.

Nop. Read my whole post. I'm not even a bit bitter now. I might dissapointe then. Repeat again had Michelle won and run at the SLC, I may not be her fan like as today.

What bothers me now let me put it mild like fscric suggested, sarah's 'unprofesionalist'. Thus why I don't "agree with 'best role modle". I didn't make up "stuff". Her performance in SOI, lack of preparations speaks itself.

brad640,
Agree with you Robin was extremly driving. I'm not a big Robin fan and I don't think she is honey. I don't like the way Robin went public laundry she and Sasha's dirty in National tv, IMO, very unprofessional. But the way Sarah split with Robin, no love lost between them, (when Robin took on Sasha she left msg in Sarah's vmail but Sarah never bothered to call back. And according to Robin they never talked since the split), told me something. Considering Robin acted like her surogate mother driving her to the rink every day and coached her to the OGM, I think Robin deserved better from Sarah. Enough said.
 
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Linny

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
No triples

Just wondering how many other skaters, post eligibility, no longer have the triples or quads that they had as eligible skaters.

Instead of expecting that same level, I'm usually pleasantly surprised when one of the guys throws a 3A or one of the woman pulls of a 3Z. I don't actually expect it.

Plus, don't the post eligible skaters perform under lights? Would it be possible to perform a World or Oly calibre program under lights? I've never seen one done...

Linny
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Post SLC Sarah let Robin share the glory in the parade etc. So no matter how some people go out all thier way to make her an ungrateful pupil, that does not fly Oh please at no time was Robin Sarah's surrogate mother, that is such an insult to Sarah's real mother or older sisters. Robin was a very dedicated coach, and Sarah was the perfect pupil when they were working together.

Sarah has been a good role model. Her SOI performance is not up to par to her eligible days can be due to many factors. Some people automatically assume that she does not prepare???

Sarah lives in a free country, she is free to "grab the gold and go" so what. If some fans have this fantasy about how a skater should plan his or her life post OGM or post achieving one of the biggest goals in their life, then IMO they should stay in their mind's fantasy. Interesting that they set their conditional love re: Mk if she won Nagano / SLC and retired or not. The skaters don't live under the rule of Big Brother, and they don't need their fans conditional love either
 
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Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
I'm amazed...

I think we have enough trouble with Figure Skating Judging without trying to make being "Crown Worthy" part of criteria for winning the Ladies event. I think that's what the Miss America pageant is for.

DG
 

wvgal57

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Now, I'm not bitter at all for Sarah beaten Michelle at SLC.

Mzeng you sound very bitter here (and at various other boards that I have read). I don't see why you can't just be happy to see MK still competing (even as little as it is) You relentlessly attack skaters and their marks and their wins. You attempt justification Michelles losses by saying that anytime another skater wins it just has to be because Michelle was robbed and that the other skater is being gifted by corrupt judges and then you try to crucify every skill that skater has. You won't admit it but the fact is Michelle's been gifted many times in her career too, she's had questionable wins with two footed jumps and falls. I rarely see fans of other skaters on a constant basis start threads and rehash over and over on different boards every jump, spin, turn and nuance in the program.

You whine constantly anytime somebody else wins. It's okay to be disappointed but it's unfair to try to constantly try to tear these skaters down. You've been doing this to Irina all season, now you're onto Sarah, you do it to Sasha and I've seen some posts about Joannie and Shizuka. There do happen to be other talented skaters besides Michelle.

SOI knew Sarah's fitness and condition when they signed her on what is reported in the media to be a multi million dollar contract. Sarah made no secret that she'd not been in rigorous training for skating nor on some special diet to skinny up. She's a healthy young woman who still has skill. The only ice arena Sarah will have to defend her Olympic gold on is in Turino, if she chooses to do so.

She's an incredible role model for any young skater, college student or adult. She's happy being who she is, she achieved her goal in amateur skating with a lot of hard work and she's enjoying the fruits of that right now with many options still out there.

I have no doubt she'll return to college because education does seem to matter to her. Education seems to be high on Sarah's list of goals and it seems to be something that her family has instilled in her from childhood as a core value.

Nagano was won fairly by Tara, SLC fairly by Sarah and the competition has only gotten stiffer for Turino. Why do I have the feeling that if Michelle loses again in Turino you will still stalk the boards with critical remarks about anything the winner might chose to do in their life and constantly rehash old competitions. Michelle lost twice, fairly, and constant attempts to demean those skaters who beat her is shallow and not fruitful.
 
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