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Thread: The Attidue Spin?

  1. #1
    Joesitz
    Guest

    The Attidue Spin?


    The balletomanes know that an attitude is an arabesque (spiral) with a bent knee. the knee in general is higher than the foot (allthough the Russians do it the other way, and it is quite effective).

    It is the basis of the classic layback spin a la Angela. Quite lovely. But how many skaters can do the 'attitude' spin without the layback? I noticed that Sarah did an outside attitude spin when completing a camel in the exhibition, but it was just for a turn and a half. Klimkin also does an attitude spin (outside) when completing a camel and it has many turns (very efffective) but low attitude.

    I don't think anyone can do that spin a la Angela (inside) without the layback. btw, Angela doesn't do it either.

    Am I correct? If not to whom should I look for it?

    Joe





  2. #2
    icenut84
    Guest

    Re: The Attidue Spin?


    I'm not sure what you mean by your descriptions, but I'm pretty positive this is an attitude spin: (Michelle Kwan doing it)

    <a href="http://www.jayadeff.com/SA2002Kwan5b.jpg" target="top">Attitude spin</a>

  3. #3
    Joesitz
    Guest

    Re: The Attidue Spin?


    icenut - Michelle looks lovely but it is not what I call and 'attitude spin". I just don't think it exists in skating. Picture Angela's free leg in the layback, now try to picture her free leg in the same position but her torso is upright (not laid back). I have never seen anyone do that on skates, and I am beginning to believe it is impossible. However, some skaters do hold the free leg in back during an outside spin and it is quite effective. But never in the inside edge as in a layback.

    but thanks for replying. I appreciate it.

    Joe

  4. #4
    megsk8z
    Guest

    Re: The Attidue Spin?


    Joe, you are right....that's not an attitude spin, it's a cross foot spin.
    There really is such a thing as an attitude spin, although I haven't seen anyone do it in televised competition in quite some time. Our club had a clinic on spinning a few years ago and Janet Champion (a really good "spin doctor") came to give us this clinic. She showed us what it was and I was surprised at the difficulty involved in actually standing upright and putting the free leg in attitude position.
    Seems like the spin has an "attitude" all its' own.

  5. #5
    Joesitz
    Guest

    Re: The Attidue Spin?


    Meg - thanks for reply. I would love to see a spin like that. Janet Champion should be lauded for teaching it. Let's watch closely at Sarah and Sasha laybacks and see if they can hold the attitude when unbending from the layback.

    Joe

  6. #6
    LADSKATER
    Guest

    Re: The Attidue Spin?


    There really is no such spin as an "attitude" spin in skating. The basic spin position is on one foot, leg drawn in over the leg the skater is spinning on with the arms pulled in. Then there are variations such as the layback, camel etc.

    Ladskater

  7. #7
    nysk8r
    Guest

    Re: The Attidue Spin?


    I actually remember Dick Button complaining about a layback spin in which the skater didn't have the free leg parallel to the ice but bent; he called it an "attitude leg" or something like that. The attitude spin could be just that or maybe the upper body is upright and the leg is up, but bent. Oh wow, I have no idea what I'm talking about.....time for bed.

  8. #8
    FetalAttraction
    Guest

    Re: The Attitude Spin?


    Here is someone called Mauro Bruni doing an attitude spin at the 2002 Eastern Juniors:

    www.frogsonice.com/skatew...runi-3.jpg

    Here's some background info on the little bugger:

    www.usfsa.org/uschamp01/p...nmaur.html

  9. #9
    icenut84
    Guest

    Re: The Attitude Spin?


    That Michelle pic isn't a crossfoot spin, she's only got one foot on the ice, a crossfoot spin has both feet on the ice with one crossed behind the other. Phillippe Candeloro used to (still does?) do the the crossfoot spin.

    <a href="http://freestyle.skatingfans.com/2000sc/men/ben3-24.jpg" target="top">Crossfoot spin position</a>

    I'm positive Michelle's is an attitide spin, judging by other pics of attitude spins I've seen. It's basically a one foot spin with the free leg behind in the direction of rotation, usually one arm up and one out to the side, often with the head back or the back arched. Another example, in Sarah Hughes's LP at SLC, she did her layback and then went into the attitude position for a couple of revs before coming out of it.

    The "Attitude" position of the free leg that you are talking about, like in dance, is different. I believe it basically refers to the free leg (like in an arabesque) bent at the knee at 90 degrees.

  10. #10
    sspye
    Guest

    Re: The Attitude Spin?


    I thought an 'attitude spin' was kind of a sideways layback. Head to the side, leg to the side. Oksana B. has done them...and possibly Nancy K. Here is an Oksana pic although this looks close to a layback.

    <a href="http://www.brama.com/fun/pics/oksana3.jpg" target="top">www.brama.com/fun/pics/oksana3.jpg</a>

    Denise

  11. #11
    Lwalsh
    Guest

    Attitude Spin


    The attitude spin has been around forever it's just that you don't see many skaters doing them. In comparison to a layback, it is easier. The picture of the junior male somone posted is a correct attitude though it is a little hard to see the leg position. It's really like a layback but with the torso upright and the leg a bit higher and a bit more bent. It differs from the traditional ballet attitude because of the leg bend. I was taught this as a kid before learning the layback to get used to the leg position. I use it now in adult competitions because it's easier than the layback and doesn't make me as dizzy. The attitude spin is also a USFSA alternate requirement for the Adult Silver test because Adults find it difficult to bend into a real layback position.

    Kay has a picture of herself doing a back attitude here: www.skatejournal.com/gallery3.html again, it is sometimes hard to see in pictures. She is also a CW skater it might look different to some.

    The picture of Michelle Kwan is a spin that doesn't really have a proper name. Some people call it a "cross under" spin or something like that. A true cross foot spin is usually done by male skaters on both feet. You can see a video clip of one at www.northstarnet.org/eakh.../kevinnew/

    Lara



  12. #12
    Lanternlight
    Guest

    Re: Attitude Spin


    the attitude spin is what we basic adult skaters who can't yet do laybacks do instead. It's like a layback-lite.

  13. #13
    rgirl181
    Guest

    Re: Attitude Spin


    Lwalsh,
    Welcome to GS and thanks for the description and photos of exactly what an attitude spin is. (Fetal--It was hard to tell in your photo because of the black pants and camera angle.)

    Joe,
    I know exactly what you're talking about and I have seen skaters do them for one or two rotations coming out of a layback. I also <strong>know</strong> I've seen a skater do a a spin in a classic attitude position with the arms above the shoulders in a "V" shape--I can see it perfectly in my head--except I can't see who the skater is!

    A variation on the classic ballet attitude that is often used as a spin in skating, especially pairs, is spinning holding the knee. Katia Gordeeva does it and it was always one of Mishkutenok and Dmitriev's side-by-side spins. (Think back to "Liebestraum.")

    As for what Michelle is doing, Ilia Kulik did that spin in his '95-96 LP "Aladdin" and at Worlds Dick Button called it either a "back crossfoot spin" or a "spin in the back crossfoot position." But that's just Uncle Dick. And he doesn't even know to call Sasha's spin the Beaver Cleaver
    Rgirl

    PS to Joe: Irina used to do a "camel" spin but in the classic first arabesque position. It was lovely. The best line of all her extended positions. I was thinking somebody could do that same spin but with the free leg in attitude and the arms out to the side. A good attitude position is tough, though. I think it's harder to get an acceptable line in attitude than in arabesque. You really need good turnout from the hip plus an externally rotated tibia at the knee. I haven't done a study but it seems most skaters have internal tibial rotation. Something about it may even help with skating, like being slightly bowlegged--I don't know.

  14. #14
    DORISPULASKI
    Guest

    Re: Attitude Spin


    Welcome, LWalsh. Glad to meet you, and thanks for the correct info.

    dpp

  15. #15
    Joesitz
    Guest

    Re: The Attitude Spin?


    Fetal - If that picture is from a spin then that's it. The bugger is doing it.

    Joe

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