The Attidue Spin? | Golden Skate

The Attidue Spin?

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Joesitz

Guest
The Attidue Spin?

The balletomanes know that an attitude is an arabesque (spiral) with a bent knee. the knee in general is higher than the foot (allthough the Russians do it the other way, and it is quite effective).

It is the basis of the classic layback spin a la Angela. Quite lovely. But how many skaters can do the 'attitude' spin without the layback? I noticed that Sarah did an outside attitude spin when completing a camel in the exhibition, but it was just for a turn and a half. Klimkin also does an attitude spin (outside) when completing a camel and it has many turns (very efffective) but low attitude.

I don't think anyone can do that spin a la Angela (inside) without the layback. btw, Angela doesn't do it either.

Am I correct? If not to whom should I look for it?

Joe
 
J

Joesitz

Guest
Re: The Attidue Spin?

icenut - Michelle looks lovely but it is not what I call and 'attitude spin". I just don't think it exists in skating. Picture Angela's free leg in the layback, now try to picture her free leg in the same position but her torso is upright (not laid back). I have never seen anyone do that on skates, and I am beginning to believe it is impossible. However, some skaters do hold the free leg in back during an outside spin and it is quite effective. But never in the inside edge as in a layback.

but thanks for replying. I appreciate it.

Joe
 
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megsk8z

Guest
Re: The Attidue Spin?

Joe, you are right....that's not an attitude spin, it's a cross foot spin.
There really is such a thing as an attitude spin, although I haven't seen anyone do it in televised competition in quite some time. Our club had a clinic on spinning a few years ago and Janet Champion (a really good "spin doctor") came to give us this clinic. She showed us what it was and I was surprised at the difficulty involved in actually standing upright and putting the free leg in attitude position.
Seems like the spin has an "attitude" all its' own.
 
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Joesitz

Guest
Re: The Attidue Spin?

Meg - thanks for reply. I would love to see a spin like that. Janet Champion should be lauded for teaching it. Let's watch closely at Sarah and Sasha laybacks and see if they can hold the attitude when unbending from the layback.

Joe
 
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LADSKATER

Guest
Re: The Attidue Spin?

There really is no such spin as an "attitude" spin in skating. The basic spin position is on one foot, leg drawn in over the leg the skater is spinning on with the arms pulled in. Then there are variations such as the layback, camel etc.

Ladskater
 
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nysk8r

Guest
Re: The Attidue Spin?

I actually remember Dick Button complaining about a layback spin in which the skater didn't have the free leg parallel to the ice but bent; he called it an "attitude leg" or something like that. The attitude spin could be just that or maybe the upper body is upright and the leg is up, but bent. Oh wow, I have no idea what I'm talking about.....time for bed.
 
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icenut84

Guest
Re: The Attitude Spin?

That Michelle pic isn't a crossfoot spin, she's only got one foot on the ice, a crossfoot spin has both feet on the ice with one crossed behind the other. Phillippe Candeloro used to (still does?) do the the crossfoot spin.

<a href="http://freestyle.skatingfans.com/2000sc/men/ben3-24.jpg" target="top">Crossfoot spin position</a>

I'm positive Michelle's is an attitide spin, judging by other pics of attitude spins I've seen. It's basically a one foot spin with the free leg behind in the direction of rotation, usually one arm up and one out to the side, often with the head back or the back arched. Another example, in Sarah Hughes's LP at SLC, she did her layback and then went into the attitude position for a couple of revs before coming out of it.

The "Attitude" position of the free leg that you are talking about, like in dance, is different. I believe it basically refers to the free leg (like in an arabesque) bent at the knee at 90 degrees.
 
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Lwalsh

Guest
Attitude Spin

The attitude spin has been around forever it's just that you don't see many skaters doing them. In comparison to a layback, it is easier. The picture of the junior male somone posted is a correct attitude though it is a little hard to see the leg position. It's really like a layback but with the torso upright and the leg a bit higher and a bit more bent. It differs from the traditional ballet attitude because of the leg bend. I was taught this as a kid before learning the layback to get used to the leg position. I use it now in adult competitions because it's easier than the layback and doesn't make me as dizzy. The attitude spin is also a USFSA alternate requirement for the Adult Silver test because Adults find it difficult to bend into a real layback position.

Kay has a picture of herself doing a back attitude here: www.skatejournal.com/gallery3.html again, it is sometimes hard to see in pictures. She is also a CW skater it might look different to some.

The picture of Michelle Kwan is a spin that doesn't really have a proper name. Some people call it a "cross under" spin or something like that. A true cross foot spin is usually done by male skaters on both feet. You can see a video clip of one at www.northstarnet.org/eakh.../kevinnew/

Lara
 
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Lanternlight

Guest
Re: Attitude Spin

the attitude spin is what we basic adult skaters who can't yet do laybacks do instead. It's like a layback-lite.
 
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rgirl181

Guest
Re: Attitude Spin

Lwalsh,
Welcome to GS and thanks for the description and photos of exactly what an attitude spin is. (Fetal--It was hard to tell in your photo because of the black pants and camera angle.)

Joe,
I know exactly what you're talking about and I have seen skaters do them for one or two rotations coming out of a layback. I also <strong>know</strong> I've seen a skater do a a spin in a classic attitude position with the arms above the shoulders in a "V" shape--I can see it perfectly in my head--except I can't see who the skater is!

A variation on the classic ballet attitude that is often used as a spin in skating, especially pairs, is spinning holding the knee. Katia Gordeeva does it and it was always one of Mishkutenok and Dmitriev's side-by-side spins. (Think back to "Liebestraum.")

As for what Michelle is doing, Ilia Kulik did that spin in his '95-96 LP "Aladdin" and at Worlds Dick Button called it either a "back crossfoot spin" or a "spin in the back crossfoot position." But that's just Uncle Dick. And he doesn't even know to call Sasha's spin the Beaver Cleaver:p
Rgirl

PS to Joe: Irina used to do a "camel" spin but in the classic first arabesque position. It was lovely. The best line of all her extended positions. I was thinking somebody could do that same spin but with the free leg in attitude and the arms out to the side. A good attitude position is tough, though. I think it's harder to get an acceptable line in attitude than in arabesque. You really need good turnout from the hip plus an externally rotated tibia at the knee. I haven't done a study;) but it seems most skaters have internal tibial rotation. Something about it may even help with skating, like being slightly bowlegged--I don't know.
 
D

DORISPULASKI

Guest
Re: Attitude Spin

Welcome, LWalsh. Glad to meet you, and thanks for the correct info.

dpp
 
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Joesitz

Guest
Re: The Attitude Spin?

Fetal - If that picture is from a spin then that's it. The bugger is doing it.

Joe
 
L

Lwalsh

Guest
Attitude Spin

Piel,

That's really a variation on an attitude position. Very attractive positon when done while spinning.

Lara
 
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Piel

Guest
Re: Attitude Spin

Lara,

Thanks! I think that it's beautiful, one of my favorites...reminds me of the ballerina in the music box.

Piel
 
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rgirl181

Guest
Re: Attitude Spin

Piel,
That's exactly the variation on an attitude spin I was talking about in my post--and which LWalsh identified--and when I mentioned that Katia Gordeeva often did it, those photos capture exactly what I was thinking of. If the free leg were a little lower and if she weren't holding the knee, it would be a classic attitude spin. And I agree, it is absolutely lovely, and Katia's is especially beautiful, IMO. Thanks for the photos:D
Rgirl
 
A

AdultSkater

Guest
Re: The Attidue Spin?

Hello Joesitz---

The attitude spin is not at all difficult to do well. I was 38 years old when I decided to try it after stretching and working on my attitude position off ice. It's easy. You set your forward spin like a blur spin and then simply place your free leg in attitude position. The USFSA code of moves ranks it as the same difficulty as an ordinary sit spin. I have performed this spin in competition several times.

I have just watched myself do it on tape one frame at a time. Free leg is parallel to the ice, foot turned out, toe pointed, 6 revolutions well centered.

Not a difficult move for these skaters, I would say.

AS
 
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