View Poll Results: Sould Names and Nationalities of Judges Be Shown when Scoring Competitions?

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  • No. It's better not to have a scandal

    2 1.75%
  • No. All Judges are honest

    1 0.88%
  • Yes. Not all Judges are honest

    36 31.58%
  • Yes. Judges will fear exposure

    18 15.79%
  • Yes on Names and No on Nationalities

    1 0.88%
  • A Complete scoring and names be shown

    77 67.54%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Should Judges Names and Nationalities Be Shown in Competitions?

  1. #1
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Should Judges Names and Nationalities Be Shown in Competitions?

    The advantages and disadvantages of secret judging. Choose more than one selection if you wish.
    Last edited by Joesitz; 02-12-2005 at 11:38 AM.

  2. #2
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    The more I see of the new judging system the more I am convinced that it doesn't matter what system is used. Under any scoring system, most of the time the one who skates best will come out on top. Under any scoring system sometimes there will be close contests where people can argue about who was robbed. And under any scoring system there will be opportunities for cheating and their attendant scandals.

    I tried for a long time to hold my cynicism at bay, but I am forced to conclude that the whole push for the CoP is about public relations, not better judging. Speedy was under the gun to give the public the impression that he was addressing the issue of political pre-judging, and this is what he came up with.

    So from the point of view of the ISU, it comes down to a choice between Joe's first and last answers. Is it better PR to sweep everything under the rug and hope that no one finds out? Or is it better PR to say, see, we have nothing to hide (while still hoping that no one finds out)?

    So I voted for complete disclosure.

    Mathman

  3. #3
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Very good post, Mathman.

    My strong feelings about Naming Judges With Nationalities is that avid fans like our members of GS will be able to see if there is any justification of biased judging. Of course, those few judges who may be dishonest will be anyway but this may just give them second thoughts.

    Bottom Line crooked judging is unfair to all skaters: the winner down to the last entry.

    Joe

  4. #4
    Shoe Diva
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    I have never made any secret that in my opinion, the CoP is nothing more than the 6.0 with algebra... The truth behind the scandles in figure skating is the unethical behaviour of the judges. And how does the ISU reward them? By hiding them from scrunity. If there was nothing to hide, the issue of showing the names & nationalities wouldn't be a factor. Period.

    Interigity is not apart of this sport's administration & management. It makes me wonder where this sport is going to be in five, ten & fifteen years...

    Kwanford Wife

  5. #5
    Rinkside
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    Yes. You should never assume the judges will be honest.

  6. #6
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    In addition, I would add one caveat with throwing out 2 random scores: if the judge from the federation a skater represents is on the board, his/her score is automatically eliminated.

  7. #7
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    Doesn't matter. We all know who the tap-dancing crooks are!!!!

  8. #8
    The burr up Speedy's Butt! visaliakid's Avatar
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    Full Disclosure would be the best PR. However the ISU powers to be have long distained punishing any cheatering judges/officials with lifetime bans. Until the whole mentality is reversed and Zero Tolerance with fair but swift process for punishing proven cheating is put in place, no amount of openness will be the total answer.

    1. Establish Strict Ethics Rules for all under the ISU umbrella.
    2. Establish and enforce Lifetime Bans for all proven cheating.
    3. Bring (International) Judges Selection, Training and Assigments under either direct supervision of ISU or an independent agency, thereby removing them from individual national governing bodies. Make them professional judges, with a Salary, and set up mechanism for oversight and periodic review of their performance.
    4. Full public disclosure of all Judges names, and complete marks for every competition upon completion of each event.

    Anything short of taking those steps, then why bother! The cheating will continue no matter what system is put in place.

    :sheesh:

  9. #9
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    I say no to both because fans tend to blame the judges when their favorites don't win. Networks are looking for scandals- real or imaginary and they can create one to get their ratings. I have been a judge at speech contests many times and all the (judges') names, scores and rankings there are a secret. Sometimes people agree with the results, and sometimes they are surprised by them, but everyone accepts them, as a good sport would. In FS a judge can get raked over coals simply by having a Russian sounding name, regardless of the actual nationality. So I say keep the names also a secret. They may want to publish the names of all the judges for all the competitions together if they wish, if they cannot keep a secret.

  10. #10
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I say YES because I feel more for the skaters than the fans.

    Skaters work hard from about ages 5 through 30 years. They are entitled to honest judging. The fans will complain if their favorite doesn't win whether or not there is secret judging or not.

    What's wrong with scandals? It brings out the truth on what is going on with the judges. Non-secret judging will put fear in those judges who want to be dishonest, and will be a factor in preventing dishonest judging.

    As to Russian judges, many come from states within the old Soviet Regime. Russians were sent to these states to keep the natives in control. They retain their Russian identity and to the way they were brought up. All this was taught to the children of these misplaced Russians. Of course, they will have Russian names and not names of the natives of the state(s) they were sent to. How many muslim names will we see in figure skating?

    Nothing wrong with ethnic pride. The USA has more than its share. I daresay that some Russians in the USA are rooting for Russian skaters. It's understandable.

    Talk about dishonesty in figure skating judging has been around for many years. It came to a head in SLC. The Sport has suffered, and will continue to suffer if there is any suspicion of crookedness among its judging staff. Naming judges is one way to prevent dishonesty.

    To sum up my feelings on all this. I put the figure skater as the most important element in the sport and he deserves honest judging. If scandals cause the downfall of figure skating then so be it.

    Joe

  11. #11
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    I'm for full disclosure.

  12. #12
    Figure Skating Is A Dangerous Sport Dee4707's Avatar
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    I voted for full disclosure.

    Dee

  13. #13
    On the Ice
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    Yes, yes, yes! Total accountibility, nothing less!

  14. #14
    On the Ice
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    If a person does not have the moral convictions to give their name to their vote publically, they do not need to be a judge. Full disclosure.

  15. #15
    On the Ice
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    Secrecy is just protecting anyone who might cheat. If everything is open, then cheaters can be identified, simple as that.

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