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Thread: Bush's Social Security Plan

  1. #1
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Bush's Social Security Plan

    Is everyone ok on this proposal which he is pitching so highly. We don't have to worry about different color alerts anymore once he got elected.

    Anyway, I've been getting a monthly check under the present system which I am very happy to receive, and I believe I am safe from his strange plan. There is no emergency at this time but in fifty years there may well be. If you are under 50, I think that's the age where things change, you and your working children will be paying 75 per cent of the present rate from your salary into the fund and matched by your employer. You will be responsible for 25 per cent of the present rate for putting into some sort of securities This will cut the employers rate which is what Bush is getting at, and you wil have the joy of watching your private investment go down the drain unless, of course, you learn about insider trading.

    Are you happy with this Bush Plan for yourself and children?

    Joe
    Last edited by Joesitz; 02-15-2005 at 06:28 PM.

  2. #2
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    No not happy at all with proposed plan. Glad to see the Democrats taking a strong stand against this ridiculous shell game.

    The ultimate goal Bush has is a phase out of social security. That's fine, but let's debate his REAL intention. He really needs to stop misrepresenting the truth to the American people.

  3. #3
    Extinction is Forever 4dogknight's Avatar
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    I'm glad that some Republicans are taking exception to his plan as well as the Democrats.

    I've been paying into SS since 1957 and I started getting checks since last January (2004). What the SS check does is pay for my medications and that's all. If my husband and I hadn't been prudent and socked money away since we both started working, lo those many years ago and then found a reputable broker, we would be in a world of hurt today.

    My dad died when I was just 19 and I became "the unmarried head of household" providing support to my mom and me. My father worked for the CMStP&P Railroad and paid in for 45 years to the Railroad Retirement Plan. He never actually retired and never claimed any monies from the fund. Three days after my dad died, several representatives from RRP came to see my mother and suckered her into deferring payment of the pension funds until she was 62. Had I been home these guys, who were supposed to be friends of my dad, would have been tossed out the front window. It was a long row to hoe and I swore that I would never, ever be put into the position of deciding if I should spend money on food or buy toilet paper and soap! I learned at an early age to make every buck I had work for me.

    My mom died 11 years after my dad, receiving his pension for only one year. I of course by that time, was over 18 and couldn't claim any of the remaining funds. So much for all the money my dad paid into the fund.

    Do I think SS is in trouble? No not al this time but I would get behind and support legislation to bump up the SS ceiling. Why should the middle and lower wage earning segments of our population be taxed on all their earnings while those nice folks making over $90,000 get a break on the excess over that amount? Raise that ceiling and I would venture to guess that SS would be solvent until the next century.

    Do I think Medicare and Medicaid are in bigger financial trouble? You bet I do but I don't want this administration doing anything about it. Look at their prescription medication blunder! Do I think our educational systems are in bigger trouble than SS? Again - you bet I do. Heck we can't even fix our election system and wasn't there a problem with some missile system last week? Why can’t we concentrate on the real problems facing this country; problems like the environment degradation, making a real education at a reasonable price available to all citizens, paying workers a living wage, getting a system in place that allows all citizen the right to vote, etc.


    4dk – who will now shut up

  4. #4
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    My problem is that I haven't seen the plan yet. The devil is in the details, and I can imagine the SC privatisation plan being written in a way I would find acceptable. I few points though:

    1. Budget. Under the current system, the money we put into the system goes to those receiving SC benefits today. Therefore, any money that is taken out of SC and into private accounts means increasing deficit to get the money to pay the seniors today. I could still go for it if (a) the transition was very gradual, so not too much money had to be borrowed; and (b) some (or all) of the tax cut would be rolled back. Getting rid of the ceiling would also be a grand idea - the ceiling simply makes no sense!

    2. What can you invest in? The only way I could ever support the plan would be if people could only invest into broad funds. No Enrons, please!

    3. How much money would remain guaranteed? My main problem with Bush's approach to SC is that he doesn't see it as an entitlement. Before I get behind this plan, I'd need to see concrete numbers of the minimal benefits retirees would still get even if all their private investment accounts went bust.

  5. #5
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Where are the customers' yachts?

    There is a standard Wall Street joke that goes like this. A tourist, who is also an investor, goes on a tour of the Wall Street district. The tour guide takes him down to the piers where all the luxury yatchs are docked.

    "See those boats over there? Those are the bankers' yachts.

    "And the ones in the next row, those are the stock brokers' yachts.

    "And in the next row, those are the mutual fund managers' yachts."

    The investor scratched his head for a minute, and then asked,

    "But where are the customers' yachts?"

    One of the problems with these privatization schemes is that any potential gains will be eaten up in increased private administative fees. The people who will get rich off privatization will be the bankers, fund managers and stock brokers who handle the money.

    There is a long article on this in the latest issue of the AARP magazine, contrasting the U.S. with Great Britain. Great Britain is currently undergoing a reform movement back to a traditional goverment administered retirement program, and away from the kind of private investment plan, similar to Bush's proposal, which has been in place there for several decades. According to the article, the British plan is now viewed as a failure -- they pay much less to retirees than is the case in America, plus the management fees charged by banks and brokers have soared up to as much as 30%. (Remarkable as it seems for a government program, the administrative costs for social security in the U.S. now are miniscule.)

    Having said that, however, I have to admit that I do not have any solution for the looming crisis. No matter how you spin the numbers, we have too many of us old people living too long, expecting to be supported by too few young people who have other things to do with their money than give it to us.

    Mathman

  6. #6
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I don't think the problem is looming. It could be dealt with now with one of the Democrat Plans or have the great minds come together and make a better one. Bush is under the illusion that his plan would be Permanent. Yeah!

    I can see the non economy minded citizens being suckered up into lousy Funds and making little or no money in the schemes. Oh, well, I'm passed that but others should forget about politics and Bush's real intent, and think about social security which is best for you.

    Joe

  7. #7
    bugs are smarter than we are bronxgirl's Avatar
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    I'm in the age group that won't have guarantees in the plan, but will be too old to build up any nest egg under the proposal. I'm grateful that I have been in a position to save money, because the Bush proposal sounds like it will destroy social Security once and for all

  8. #8
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    I've paid very little into Social Security. Most of my retirement money is in the Teacher Retirement System. Hope it won't get tapped out before I get to use it. Keeping my fingers crossed for both systems. Of course, anything Bush has his fingers into seems to be cursed.............42

  9. #9
    On the Ice
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    I don't normally like to get too political on figure skating forums but this issue really has my knickers in a twist.
    There is no crisis.
    This is hype manufactured by the Bush administration in an effort to rid the government of all New Deal and War on Poverty programs.
    The definitive article on Social Security can be found here:
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature...cial_security/

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flora MacDonald
    I don't normally like to get too political on figure skating forums but this issue really has my knickers in a twist.
    There is no crisis.
    This is hype manufactured by the Bush administration in an effort to rid the government of all New Deal and War on Poverty programs.
    The definitive article on Social Security can be found here:
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature...cial_security/
    Amen sister, that is completely right.

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