Irina Slutskaya will retire after the 2006 Olympics; possibly 2006 Worlds

Joesitz said:

Irina came into view, imo, when at that Worlds, she skated fairly well but Maria B won over her and MK. Was it the following year that she and MK were set up for a 3rd skate at a GP Final? Irina did her Carmen thing and MK went overboard with a Bartok. Irina won the tiebeaker and,from then on, I think she became the toast of the antiKwan fans. It pushed Irina into prominence as the next one in line to beat MK in 2002, that was, until a little California girl came onto the scene at the US Nationals in Cleveland and the next Olympic Champion was a new one on view. Irina's USA fan base was shattered but it is still held up when it is just between her and MK. JMO

Joe

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Joe, Irina did not go to Worlds '99, the year Maria won. She finished 4th at Russian Nationals for the 2nd year in a row and Russia sent Butyrskaya, Soldatova and Volchkova to Worlds. In the '98-'99 season, Irina hadn't won a single GP event, and with two bronze and one silver medal, was the last skater to qualify for the Final, where she finished 3rd.

The Worlds you're talking about, Joe, was Worlds 2000, where Kwan won gold and Irina beat Maria out for the silver medal. Irina won a bronze and a gold medal in the GP to qualify for the GPF in the 1999-2000 season, and won her first GPF title.

Playing the game

Well, a pig is a very intelligent animal. Pretty lame to intend insult by using a pig. Methinks there are much worse things that one can say out of frustration and disappointment. If "ugly pig" was the worse that she could come up with in that stressful moment, perhaps she is to be admired.

"As the saying goes, if you don't like the rules, then don't play the game."

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To that saying, I say "ugly pig". It's like say "America - love it or leave it". Really, if I don't like our system of government, I should withdraw to a country with a different type of government? Or should I work to improve things?

With regard to a sport, if I don't like the way I was judged, perhaps next time I will wow the judges to the point of stating the obvious? Undisputed winner? Oh, and BTW, even in tennis, there are some questionable calls. And disputes. And name calling. Don't recall if "ugly pig" was ever used.

Linny

Linny said:

Well, a pig is a very intelligent animal. Pretty lame to intend insult by using a pig. Methinks there are much worse things that one can say out of frustration and disappointment. If "ugly pig" was the worse that she could come up with in that stressful moment, perhaps she is to be admired.

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So you are saying it's OK for a competitor at the very highest level of her sport to display an obvious lack of sportsmanship when the live telecast is being watched by millions of people across the world? Wow. What next should we expect on our TV screens? Four-letter swear words? Middle-finger gestures at the camera? No wonder figure skating audiences are dwindling these days. BTW, "ugly pigs" was probably one of the insults Irina could come up with. I'm sure there were others which were lost in the translation, such was the ferocity of her wrath. It's not as if Irina had a perfect freeskate and Sarah had a crappy one. If anyone had a more legitimate cause to cry "wuzrobbed", then it would have been S&P (judging controversy notwithstanding) in the pairs competition, as they nailed their program while B&S had mistakes, and the 5/4 split was very close; both pairs received either 1st or 2nd place ordinals and the different 1st place ordinal would have reversed the final placements.

To that saying, I say "ugly pig". It's like say "America - love it or leave it". Really, if I don't like our system of government, I should withdraw to a country with a different type of government? Or should I work to improve things?

With regard to a sport, if I don't like the way I was judged, perhaps next time I will wow the judges to the point of stating the obvious? Undisputed winner? Oh, and BTW, even in tennis, there are some questionable calls. And disputes. And name calling. Don't recall if "ugly pig" was ever used.

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Yeah, and the next time, and the next time, and the next time etc ad infinitum. SLC was not the only occasion where Irina felt she "wuzrobbed". The same thing happened at 2001 Worlds, despite a 7/2 split in the LP results in favor of Michelle. As chuckm said in an earlier post, same old same old. Blaming the judges for every result against your favor does not "improve things", it just screams "sore loser". Perhaps if Irina is so convinced that the judges have it in for her, she should ask the ISU to conduct an investigation, instead of whining about it. If I were a judge and my judging abilities were constantly being questioned, I would be inclined to vote against her too. Irina's role as a competitor is to skate, and not to judge. Leave that to the judges.

What separates a great athlete from a good one is not just the achievements of the athlete, but also his/her humility or modesty in triumph and graciousness in defeat. If Irina wants to win all those competitions she keeps going on about, then maybe she should actually work on improving her performances themselves, instead of blaming the judges and everyone else under the sun for not giving her those titles when she doesn't perform to the best of her abilities. If Irina underperforms in Moscow and Turino and she doesn't win, we'll probably be hearing about how she "wuzrobbed" until 3006 ..... :sheesh:

Excidra2001 said:

She did not say she skated clean through out the season, I believe she is talking about a certain competition. I do not know how she skated at Russian Nationals in 99 but if she skated clean, I would've put her on that team considering she was the worlds #2 lady.

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Irina was referring to 1999 Russian Nationals. She said she skated "very clean" but you have to consider that Irina's version of how she skated in any particular event does not always gibe with reality. For instance, Irina thought she skated better in the FS at SLC than Sarah Hughes and had a hissy fit that is still going on to this day, that she was robbed of "her" OGM.

Irina most likely did not skate cleanly at Russian Nationals, and it is entirely possible that Butyrskaya, Soldatova and Volchkova all outskated her. While it was true that Irina was the reigning '98 World silver medalist, Butyrskaya was the '98 World bronze medalist, Soldatova was the reigning Junior World Champion, and Volchkova had won JW bronze. While Butyrskaya's, Soldatova's and Volchkova's skating was improving, Irina's was declining, as she was having problems with her jumps due to a growth spurt and weight gain.

I think the Russian federation was also considering Irina's overall skating that season. She did 3 GP events in the fall of 1998, and she was not skating as well as she had in previous seasons. At Skate Canada, she was 3rd behind Elena Liashenko and Fumie Suguri; at Cup of Russia, she was 3rd behind Sokolova and Soldatova, and at NHK, she was 2nd behind Tatiana Malinina. At the GPF, she finished 3rd behind Malinina and Butyrskaya. Considering that Bute won gold at '99 Worlds, Soldatova won bronze and Malinina finished 4th, the likelihood is Irina would likely have finished off the podium anyway.

In retrospect, it probably wound up being better for Irina's career that she skipped Worlds that year, because it gave her time to regroup and adjust to her changing body. Sometimes a setback motivates an athlete to work harder, and that was the case with Irina. She came roaring back the following season and started her string of GPF championships.

Linny said:

To that saying, I say "ugly pig".

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I think Linny has the better of this argument. If you're a world class athlete, of course you think you are the best -- if you don't, get off the court! As for ugly pig, I wonder what Venus and Serena called the referees that screwed them over in the French Open and U.S. Open last year, LOL. Probably gave them the "Tanith Belbin."

MM

What you think is one thing. What you say in front of cameras and media people is another. Irina is lucky that what she said didn't get carried in the US media, because she mightn't have gotten that COI contract. In 1994, Kerrigan got roasted for saying Oksana shouldn't bother to fix her makeup because she'd only cry it off again. Imagine the uproar if Kerrigan had called the judges "ugly pigs"!

euterpe said:

In 1994, Kerrigan got roasted for saying Oksana shouldn't bother to fix her makeup because she'd only cry it off again. Imagine the uproar if Kerrigan had called the judges "ugly pigs"!

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Sounds like American's hold the higher standard for their own.

Irina Slutskaya will retire after the 2006 Olympics; possibly 2006 Worlds

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How about Michelle?

Mathman said:

I think Linny has the better of this argument. If you're a world class athlete, of course you think you are the best -- if you don't, get off the court! As for ugly pig, I wonder what Venus and Serena called the referees that screwed them over in the French Open and U.S. Open last year, LOL. Probably gave them the "Tanith Belbin."

MM

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the "Tanith Belbin"!!! ahh you've made me laugh MM!

No really, not to get controversial, but I downloaded a week ago the clip where robin and sarah find oout they have the gold medal, and this is what I see: irina watching her marks, then camera changes to robin and sarah screaming an huging some peopel that were with them, then camera changes to Irina and I assume her coach (they seem to be in a corner, Irina's back to the camera, and the coach is telling her something but I cannot hear anything, except for Robin's screams), then it changes to Karen Kwan and maybe a brother of hers (not sure, 'cause I cannot see his face, I don't know if she has brothers tho ^^U ), they look sad, then I think it goes back to Irina who is going with her coach backstage, but I cannot see Irina saying anything nor hear her saying anything with all the background sound. This "ugly pigs" thing, did she say it in russian? where in the whole clipe did she say it?

Hikaru said:

No really, not to get controversial, but I downloaded a week ago the clip where robin and sarah find oout they have the gold medal, and this is what I see: irina watching her marks, then camera changes to robin and sarah screaming an huging some peopel that were with them, then camera changes to Irina and I assume her coach (they seem to be in a corner, Irina's back to the camera, and the coach is telling her something but I cannot hear anything, except for Robin's screams), then it changes to Karen Kwan and maybe a brother of hers (not sure, 'cause I cannot see his face, I don't know if she has brothers tho ^^U ), they look sad, then I think it goes back to Irina who is going with her coach backstage, but I cannot see Irina saying anything nor hear her saying anything with all the background sound. This "ugly pigs" thing, did she say it in russian? where in the whole clipe did she say it?

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I also remember they showed Peggy Fleming in the audience gasping when the final placements went up and covering her mouth in shock that Sarah had won and Michelle ended up with bronze.

brad640 said:

I also remember they showed Peggy Fleming in the audience gasping when the final placements went up and covering her mouth in shock that Sarah had won and Michelle ended up with bronze.

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Yes! I forgot about that too! first they showed Kristi Yamaguchi, then later Peggy, she was still working the numbers I think, because Kristi seemed to have notice that Sarah won, then they showed Peggy, she was talking to someone at her left (don't know who), and later on they showed Peggy again all like "ooooh!", as if she had seen know who won, and I read her lips like saying something like "Oh My God!", she was shocked. I don't know how they show in the arena the results for the free skate, I think it might be different than the way they showed the ordinals in TV or something, but Peggy was very surprised in the end. The commentator said something like "an upset of olympic proportions" (referring to how Sarah went out to win the whole thing in the end, I think).

I remember seeing Irina on the telephone, gesticulating wildly and looking mad as he**, while her coach tried to calm her down. She clearly had expected to win, even though she had not skated well---too slow, too lackluster, and she messed up the 3F.

Well it isn't soon enough for me that Slutskya will retire AFTER the '06 Olym.
I have thought that she is the poorest sport around for a long time. What happened after the '02Olys is that when she went back to Russia, they gave her "their" gold metal in Red Square. I read that or heard it at the time. She also has made nasty comments about America. Quote" I don't like the United States except for shopping." (That was quite recent). Now for her skating. It's sloppy and clumsy and her arms flail. Plus she has no feel for music. I guess by now it is realized that I am NOT a Slutskya fan so, again, AFTER the '06 Olys will be not soon enough for me.!

Sounds like Americans hold the higher standard for their own. – Mzheng

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I think this is true. And we also hold figure skaters to a higher standard of sportsmanship than other athletes.

Maybe we should blame Michelle. It is not realistic to expect everyone to be able to match the standards of sportsmanship, gracious spirit, good humor in joy or sorrow, humility, pride and honor that she maintains for herself.

How about Michelle? – Bestskate

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It is hard to predict what Michelle will do, but my guess is that the powers that be in US Figure Skating will find a way to keep her competing until after the 2007 season, when their contract with ABC telvision runs out and has to be renegotiated. I am not sure when Michelle's contract with Disney expires, or what kind of a deal she has for the Marshalls and Campbells events after 2006.

I don't know if she has brothers tho – Hikaru

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Michelle and Karen Kwan have one older brother, Ron. Michelle and Karen were introduced to skating by watching their brother play hockey when they were little girls. Sometimes you see him on TV with Michelle, like when they showed Michelle at the Lakers game in the NBA finals last year (Detroit 4, LA 1), Ron was there with her.

I also remember they showed Peggy Fleming in the audience gasping when the final placements went up and covering her mouth in shock that Sarah had won and Michelle ended up with bronze. -- Brad

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I remember seeing Irina on the telephone, gesticulating wildly and looking mad as he**, while her coach tried to calm her down. She clearly had expected to win, even though she had not skated well---too slow, too lackluster, and she messed up the 3F. -- Euterpe

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I don't think anyone, either commentators nor competitors, had really given any thought to the possibility that Sarah might actually win. Everybody "knew" that it was a two-horse race between Irina and Michelle.

And in a way, so it was. Even after Sarah's fine performance, still it came down to whether Irina would be placed ahead of Michelle or the other way around. If Michelle had placed second ahead of Irina, then Michelle won the gold no matter what Sarah did.

What threw everything into a tizzy was that both Michelle and Irina gave sub-par performances, resulting in judge's scores that were all over the lot.

Mathman

Mathman said:

I don't think anyone, either commentators nor competitors, had really given any thought to the possibility that Sarah might actually win. Everybody "knew" that it was a two-horse race between Irina and Michelle.

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I remember watching like a couple of weeks before the olympics a piece I think in CNN, called "People in the News", and it was about Sarah. It was called "spoiler in the wing", or something like that, you know, as her being a wild card to take the OGM from either Irina or Michelle. The piece was about Sarah's training, like how she went after school to the rink with Robin, who would drive like an hour or so, etc. The olympic year I couldn't watch any broadcast (I don't get NBC on cable, and the local stations did not broadcast anything of the olympics here, which they had done in 1998), so I was switching all the CNN and news channels to find out what happened, and when I heard Sarah had won, I thought of that "People in the News" piece!

Mathman said:

And in a way, so it was. Even after Sarah's fine performance, still it came down to whether Irina would be placed ahead of Michelle or the other way around. If Michelle had placed second ahead of Irina, then Michelle won the gold no matter what Sarah did.

What threw everything into a tizzy was that both Michelle and Irina gave sub-par performances, resulting in judge's scores that were all over the lot.

Mathman

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ITA

Peter Caruthers on one of those ‘who will win the Gold’ programs, just before the Olympics, said that Sarah Hughes could be the one to throw a monkey wrench in all the predictions excluding her.
Sarah winning the Gold was not that much of a stretch for him.

I would have to check my tape to get the exact quote, which I don’t feel like doing, so take my post as such.

I don't know why Sasha is left out of the conversation. She was supposed to do an Oksana/Tara repeat. She would have been the spoiler. Sarah, imo, was not to be considered as spoiling anything except a spot on the podium. Who really thought that spot would be gold? But she did and deservedly, imo.

Joe

Joesitz said:

Sarah, imo, was not to be considered as spoiling anything except a spot on the podium. Who really thought that spot would be gold?

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The author and publisher of Sarah Hughes: Skating to the Stars must have considered Sarah as a contender for the gold. They rushed the book into stores just in time for the Olympics.

She was also featured on the cover of Time magazine just before the Olympics. Sort of a "home-town girl makes good" slant for this New York based publicaton.

http://i.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/2002/1101020211_400.jpg

Mathman

euterpe said:

I remember seeing Irina on the telephone, gesticulating wildly and looking mad as he**, while her coach tried to calm her down. She clearly had expected to win, even though she had not skated well---too slow, too lackluster, and she messed up the 3F.

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As for her flip, she didn't hit her @$$, a slight lean forward is not nearly as bad as falling. All I recall NBC showing was Irina crying in her coachs arms, no telephones or anything like that. They zoomed in on her right after her marks came up. I can see them question why two clearly prerotated, underrotated triple triples along with a horrible flutz jump would trump a solid skate with non flawed, solid jumps and spins, the only glaring error being a slight forward lean landing on the 3 flip - the jump itself was not even underrotated, no fall and it didn't mar the program. In fact Sarah, Sasha and Michelle all benefited from the home country advantage here.

Olympic gold medal is the most important thing a skater can win but for monetary value Irina's solid gold medal has more monetary value.

As for her liking the US, she works here she isn't required to love anybody here or everything here. She is paid to entertain and perform on tour. I admire someone with a backbone who's brutally honest in her answers. No canned answers fed to her by a pr team.