wish 4C's would be in....... | Golden Skate

wish 4C's would be in.......

pipsqueak

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Most of the time 4C's is in Asia. Twice it was in North America. I wish it would move around more. It's a slow day, so I was wondering why other places don't bid for it-----or anything else, for that matter......

Any place in Great Britain? Spain, Portugal, Mexico, Argentina? What's up with the Scandinavian countries: An Olympic every half century or so, and nothing else in between? Do Canadians have rinks in Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island or similar little provinces?

What do people in Iceland do?

People on the west coast of USA hold competitions in Alaska...but do they do so in Hawaii? Are people in Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, New Mexico, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, to name a few, allowed to skate? I don't know that I've heard of anyone from there yet becoming a skater. Let's hear about some of these places :)
 

lulu

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
pipsqueak said:
Most of the time 4C's is in Asia. Twice it was in North America. I wish it would move around more. It's a slow day, so I was wondering why other places don't bid for it-----or anything else, for that matter......

Any place in Great Britain? Spain, Portugal, Mexico, Argentina? What's up with the Scandinavian countries: An Olympic every half century or so, and nothing else in between? Do Canadians have rinks in Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island or similar little provinces?

What do people in Iceland do?

People on the west coast of USA hold competitions in Alaska...but do they do so in Hawaii? Are people in Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, New Mexico, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, to name a few, allowed to skate? I don't know that I've heard of anyone from there yet becoming a skater. Let's hear about some of these places :)

Well, Great Britain, Spain, Portugual or the Scandinavian countries aren't part of the 4C. They are part of the Euros.
4C was designed as an alternative for Euros for NA and Asian skaters, and some more obscure skaters from Mexico or RSA etc.
But, Canada & the US (rarely-although there are exceptions) send their top tier skaters/teams to 4C.
I would like to see a 4C in Mexico-as it seems as if they have a good number of skaters-and their skaters always show up for the 4C. I'm just not sure if they have any facilties that could handle a huge skating event like the 4C.
 

Matt

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
pipsqueak said:
What do people in Iceland do?

People on the west coast of USA hold competitions in Alaska...but do they do so in Hawaii? Are people in Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, New Mexico, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, to name a few, allowed to skate? I don't know that I've heard of anyone from there yet becoming a skater. Let's hear about some of these places :)

Iceland did have 1 figure skater at the 2005 Nordics, I noticed. I don't know how well she did, but I saw her on the entries list.

I'm from Oklahoma (another state that could be added to your list) and the reason you don't see skaters from those states is probably b/c they don't have the facilities. Even if they do have rinks, most of them are for hockey and not big enough for FS. That's one of the reasons SOI doesn't come to Tulsa anymore; the Tulsa Oilers hockey rink at the convention centre is just too small. Tulsa Ice Arena does a lot with FS, but the coaches there aren't really the kind that can prepare a prospective skater to a national-calibre level. If you really want to be a competitive figure skater, you have to go to the coaches, which means moving the family to one of the coasts. If you have the financial ability to do that, that is

I would imagine it's the same story up in Canada with the smaller provinces (although Shawn Sawyer is from New Brunswick). I would think the situation would be a little bit better with nationwide FS programmes like CanSkate, but I'm not entirely sure how that one works. Maybe our Canadian friends on the forum can answer that one for you
 

millie

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
pipsqueak said:
Most of the time 4C's is in Asia. Twice it was in North America. I wish it would move around more. It's a slow day, so I was wondering why other places don't bid for it-----or anything else, for that matter......

Any place in Great Britain? Spain, Portugal, Mexico, Argentina? What's up with the Scandinavian countries: An Olympic every half century or so, and nothing else in between? Do Canadians have rinks in Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island or similar little provinces?

What do people in Iceland do?

People on the west coast of USA hold competitions in Alaska...but do they do so in Hawaii? Are people in Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, New Mexico, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, to name a few, allowed to skate? I don't know that I've heard of anyone from there yet becoming a skater. Let's hear about some of these places :)


You asked the question if Canadians have rinks in Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island or similar little Provinces? Yes, All the provinces have rinks big enough to hold exhibition. I live in the province of Newfoundland(The province in Canada where all the planes were directed to when the air space was closed in the U.S. due the the attack on the Twin Towers on Sept. 11). Most all our big centers have standard size skating rinks. Our captitals have Olympics size rinks that hold NHL hockey teams. We have a few exhibitions in the capital city. Most of our skaters have to leave the province when they reach a certain level in skating. They have to go to Ontario or larger provinces to be where the big coaches are.
Mainly the exhibitions that we have in our province are Canadians. If you go to the site Skate Canada, it will give you the information on all the skating levels.
 

pipsqueak

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
want to hear more

Thanks Matt and Millie--this is what I wanted to learn about....what are people doing (i.e. with skating) in all the places I (we?) never hear about? For instance, I've never heard a thing about Newfoundland. Now, I want to visit! Too, how cool would it be to go to/see a televised event in a place that few people get to see...like Newfoundland. (As in: who would ever think about visiting a place that has NO ice rink!!!!)

Also, I'm glad there are facilities in Tulsa. Are there coaches? So, in other words, in the USA and in Canada, there are facilities all over (even if mainly used by hockey), but well-known coaches congregate on the coasts or in major population centers? Does anyone know about Mexico? Where do skaters train? Who trains them?

What other parts of Asia could the 4-C's happen in? China, Japan, Korea...is that it? Are the ---"stans" that used to be part of the USSR a part of Asia or a part of Asia minor...or a part of Europe?
 

brad640

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
The idea of 4CC is strange because the only connection between the skaters is that they are excluded from Europeans. It is not much of a counterpart to Europeans because all the best skaters eligible for 4CC skip it to prepare for worlds. To me, the name Four Continents suggests that the ISU is acting like it is embracing federations from around the globe, when really a few large federations dominate. Also, presumably if there was ever a senior level skater from South America, they would change the name to 5 continents. Until then, the closest skating will get to South America is the back of Brian Joubert's LP costume.
 

thisthingcalledlove

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
brad640 said:
The idea of 4CC is strange because the only connection between the skaters is that they are excluded from Europeans. It is not much of a counterpart to Europeans because all the best skaters eligible for 4CC skip it to prepare for worlds. To me, the name Four Continents suggests that the ISU is acting like it is embracing federations from around the globe, when really a few large federations dominate. Also, presumably if there was ever a senior level skater from South America, they would change the name to 5 continents. Until then, the closest skating will get to South America is the back of Brian Joubert's LP costume.

It's strange, however, that there is a Brazilian junior skater somewhere, an adult competitor from Peru (she goes to the Coupes Des Alpes every year), and back in the beginning of figure skating competition, an Argentinian male finished seventh in the 1908 Olympics. I wish those skaters (the ones, of course, who are still skating) would be given some sort of publicity to show that there are skaters from those countries. Strangely enough, the Brazilian Skating Federation (ABBSL) is based in Boston.
 

Linny

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
So much more productive

The people of Iceland are kept busy doing something so much more productive than ice skating: breeding Icelandic horses! LOL!
Linny
 

nicole_l

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Are people in Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, New Mexico, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, to name a few, allowed to skate?

In addition to what Matt said ^^
I know that in Louisiana, the closest rink to New Orleans is something like two hours away. I'm sure that deters any possible skaters. Figure skating is expensive if you're serious about it, and generally people with the resources to train live in and around cities. At least that's what it seems like.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
brad640 said:
Also, presumably if there was ever a senior level skater from South America, they would change the name to 5 continents.
Why? North and South America are considered one continent.
 

nicole_l

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Why? North and South America are considered one continent.

I thought there were seven continents:
North America
South America
Europe
Asia
Africa
Austrailia
Antartica

I could be wrong, though.
 

STL_Blues_fan

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
pipsqueak said:
What other parts of Asia could the 4-C's happen in? China, Japan, Korea...is that it? Are the ---"stans" that used to be part of the USSR a part of Asia or a part of Asia minor...or a part of Europe?


This year skaters from Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan (I think) were represented. Most of them train in Russia, where the coaches are. I don't even know if these countries have any decent skating facilities. Maybe Kazakhstan, which is the more affulent country. In fact Kazakhstan has a very respectible national hockey team.

Uzbekistan and Tajikistan still have some internal conflicts so I don't see them as potential candidates for 4CC in any future. I think that at the end of the day, it's all about the facilities and whose federation has more influence.

Geographically, Asian and European border is at the Ural mountain range. That makes all "stans" Asian. If I am not mistaken, "stan" means kingdom in either Persian or Arabic.

Yana
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
nicole_l said:
I thought there were seven continents:
North America
South America
Europe
Asia
Africa
Austrailia
Antartica
Actually, we are apparently both correct. Click here for a discussion. Basically, in America they teach there are seven (like you said) whereas in most of Europe they consider the two Americas as one continent, and consider Antartica merely an island. That's why the Olympic symbol has five rings - one for each continent. I am not sure what they teach in Africa and Asia.
 

Jill

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
I don't mean to appear ignorant, but wouldn't Austrailia be considered an island as well? There are no other countries on that land mass. Just a thought.

Anyway, I always thought that 4C is more or less a chance for the lesser known skaters of the world to go head to head against the mighty North Americans, and lately, the Asians. This sounds like a good idea, since we all know that Europeans usually win the big competitions. I would love to go to a 4C, to see all the skaters that never get shown on TV, so add Pittsburgh to the list of hopeful cities!
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
There is not clear answer to this question. Click here for example for a discussion on why Australia is a continent while Greenland is an island.
 

Matt

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Ptichka said:
There is not clear answer to this question. Click here for example for a discussion on why Australia is a continent while Greenland is an island.

This debate always came up when I used to compete in the Geography Bee. I think the consensus we came to was that Greenland is the largest island and Australia was considered a landmass and therefore technically not an island

BTW, was there really a skater from Tajikistan? I somehow missed that one. He/she isn't listed on the ISU's website. I would assume they train in Russia, as the political situation in Tajikistan isn't stable enough for a skater to efficiently train, nor in any of the "-stans" for that matter. I know the top skaters from Uzbekistan (Tatiana Malinina--who won the GP Final in 1999 and was as high as 4th in the world--and Roman Skorniakov, who was her husband) used to train in Dale City, Virginia, just outside of Washington DC
 

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Skaters from India were in some JGP tournaments this year for the first time; we might be seeing them at the 4Cs (or, as the ISU has sometimes referred to them, the "Continentals") in a few years, but they've got a long way to go -- their COP scores were in the 20s -- for both programs combined.

Abidjan, the capital of Cote D'Ivoire (Ivory Coast), used to have an ice rink about 20 years ago, but in 1993 their longtime president died and the whole country went into massive upheaval, so I'm not sure if it's still around or not. I think it was a shopping mall rink anyway, and not an especially big one -- then again, I understand that's pretty much what they have in Hong Kong and yet they manage to send skaters to 4Cs and Worlds.

I should imagine holding the 4Cs in Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan would be a bit of a logistics problem, at least for the North Americans (is Mexico considered North or Central America??); can you imagine the travel? I flew to Australia once and THAT was long enough on a plane, thank you very much. I'm surprised, actually, that Australia has not been given the 4Cs given that Brisbane has hosted the Jr Worlds and a few other competitions -- and the Worlds were originally supposed to be there in 2000, but got yanked at the last minute due to TV rights or some such reason. Korea has had the 4Cs twice now and I would say the Australians are more succesful than the Koreans -- tho the Koreans might care more. I was in Australia during the 2002 Worlds and there was not mention one of them in any of the papers, despite Anthony Liu getting the highest ever Australian placing. The Australian ice dancers at the 01 Worlds said basically the Worlds get shown MONTHS later down there in some hour-long wrapup at a time when nothing else is going on.
 

pipsqueak

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Learning TONS

I'm learning TONS from this thread. Thanks. I know it's a "slow day" topic, but nevertheless, I'm enjoying the meander....because it IS a slow day for me. :)

Linny, someone in my neighborhood tacked a sign up on a telephone pole that they had an Icelandic pony to give away FREE b/c they could not keep it. I was sooooo intrigued and I don't even know HOW to take care of a horse (but I have the space and means). I let it pass, b/c I knew that (like going to the pound to just "look") I would not be able to take a look out of curiosity and NOT come home without an Icelandic pony. So, to this day, I don't know what I missed. What do you know about them? Tell. I'm STILL curious.

Also, thanks all for the geography lessons. I'm just now wrapping my brain around the 7-continent/ island v. continent things. It's stuff I probably already learned--and forgot. At any rate, I'm JAZZED that anyone has done a geography bee! Wow! Next I'm going to look up all the "--stans" b/c, while I knew they existed and there are many, I couldn't name them all if you paid me. This IS a diverse board! Very nice.

Finally, hearing about all this makes me envision the one lonely Icelandic or Brazilian, et al, skater and his/her coach. Some people are in this sport NOT because there are Olympics or Nationals or maybe not even a local Christmas show, but because it's what they DO. It makes you stop and realize that this sport is also an art, and just like a painter or musician or performer, sometimes a person is just BORN to be a certain thing. You can try to make them into something else (and they can even function in some sort of double profession at times), you can throw every monkeywrench in their way and make it IMPOSSIBLE for them....but their identity is still intact. They have to do what they were born to do. So, I mean by this that, if you could magically stop the clock and go back in time to steal away Da Vinci's paints, for instance, he still would have found a way to produce the Mona Lisa, even if in some other medium. You can't stop being who you are, even if it's hard to be who you are. You just ARE. I'm just musing "aloud" at this point, so don't think I'm a philosopher or something. I never did understand that thing..."I think, therefore I am....."
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
JonnyCoop said:
is Mexico considered North or Central America??);
North. Central American is defined as "southernmost region of North America, lying between Mexico and South America. (Geologists and physical geographers sometimes extend the northern boundary to the Isthmus of Tehuantepec in Mexico.) Within the region are the countries of Belize, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica. Although Panama, which was formerly a part of Colombia, is sometimes treated as part of South America, it has come to be included in Central America" www.britannica.com, "Central America".
In any case, "Central America" is really a geo-political entity, much as "Central Europe" is (why is Austria "Central" and the Czech Republic "Eastern").
 
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