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Thread: Mention of Qing Pang Suffering Weakness

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by soogar
    Pang looks extremely drawn out and the fact that she mentioned so casually in an interview that she spits her food out tells me that this method of weight control is very common place in their training center. There isn't a whole lot that can be done about girls who starve themselves of their "own" volition, but in Pang's case, this is forced upon her by her federation. She doesn't have a lot of control over her life. If we treated prisoners this way in the US , the ACLU would raise all sorts of hell about it, but this girl is forced to endure this while the ISU just sits back and doesn't do anything about it.

    How much of a big deal is it for the Chinese to go to the South and recruit figure skaters? Their sports system is Soviet style anyway and the Soviets went all over to recruit athletes who had bodies that suited the sports they were recruiting for. The skaters all live in the dorm anyway so it's not as if there is a commute from home involved.
    Well if she dosn't want to be controled by the federation I believe she can chose out. It's not like the old days in china that if you disoby the party, the file will follow entire your life, the party will make sure you don't have any other career. She still can make decent living out of skating these days. You gain some (the goverment offer you an oppotunity, in this case as a pair figure skater, to become elite in society), if you want be kept in team then you have to follow the rules, you lost some (in this case the weight).

    To be honest her weight dosn't bother me so much as most of you. I used to be just like her that skinny (160cm, 42kg about 90pounds), I never lost my menstrual cycle, until I pregnant. My daughter is another story, she was born and brought up here. I guess the food here (the milk and meat) contains more chemicals, most girls I know from asian family have their menstrual cycle much more earlier than their parents who were born/brought up in china. I used to look at her with critical eyes about her weight, compare her to mine own at the same age, although she is perfect fine under US standard and maybe at the lower end of weight chart at her age group. She, like a lot of you, is constantly bothered by Pang and Ding weight. I guess different grown up enviroment will influence your view of weight. Had you been to the streets at big city in china, such as ShangHai and GuangChu, you probably would not be in such a shock by Pang's skinny look.

    As for chinese federation go to south to recruiting the figure skater there, I guess they just started the program. I read that they've built up an in house rink (the national trainning center) at south part of chine KungMig, and maybe other south city as well, I heard LuChen started a skating schoole in one of these rink. But before that I don't think there is any in house rink in south part of china, namely south of PeiKing. That means there is no local skating club or the program in local sport school in southern part of china, the federation can't just blindly recruit the national team out of someone never put the skates on their whole life. But they do with diving athleters and some other sports though, the local sport schools which having the diving program choose the kids in public school that they thought having good body condition for diving trainning.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggygirl
    Does anyone have a link to the article where Pang was quoted actually saying this? I do NOT want to perpetuate internet rumors, and I can tell that you guys don't want to do that either (a good thing). BUT...if Pang is quoted saying this, I definitely have comment about this behavior as it pertained to my own eating disorder.

    DG
    I don't know the original link to English article. IIRC, I read it in sinasports.com a chinese website. What I took at the time (by the tone underneath) was like a kind of 'bragging' that "I sacrify for the sport. I've trainned so hard. etc.".

    BTW, in china it is not insult to say 'someone is fat'. as long not saying 'fat as a pig' (pig is an insult). Some times ppl taking 'you are getting fat recently' as a compliment.

  3. #18
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    Please reread

    Looking at the size of her partner, it's possible that both the Federation and the skater herself feel that she needs to be exceedingly thin. However, it has become obvious that she is lower than a weight at which she can perform. She has been having trouble holding landings all season.

    Sure, there isn't a whole lot that can be done about girls who starve themselves of their "own" volition, but her Federation should certainly recognize that she can not skate like this. If they ordered her to loose weight, they can order her to gain some... and if she doesn't (like Karen Carpenter didn't despite the pleas of her family, her agent, everyone who knew what was going on), then they really must drop her from the program.

    One would think that any Federation would be embarrassed to have an athlete competing for them that looks like a veritable skeleton.

    Jing Pang is also getting a bit older, isn't she? At what age to pairs skaters typically top out competitively?

    Linny
    Last edited by Linny; 03-02-2005 at 03:57 PM. Reason: need to fix

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    This is so sad. She has been looking thinner than ever, of late.

  5. #20
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    Pang is the only skater who looks thin even in white. When she skated next to Tanith at the SA 03 Gala, she made Tanith looked overwt by comparison. Shen and Zhang do not look thin compare to Pang.

    In PEM - Protein Energy Malnutrition, the body adapts by using fat storage first. Not sure what was meant by ".weight loss is in some specific places in her body that only occur when the body is burning muscle for fuel" But if anyone is indeed metabolizing muscles for energy, s/he won't last too long. There are normative values for midarm muscle in square mm, one can look up one's percentile re: male / female / different age groups. The midarm muscle area is an indication of somatic protein status. Visceral protein status can be measured by blood lymphocyte count. Bronxgirl if you are reading, do you agree. Come on Bronxgirl, you can take a break from trying to fix Cohen's flutz and give an opinion , besides the fixing flutz project probably will take 10 years. and give you a low yield anyway

    I don't know Pang's wt, but she looks a good 10 - 15 lbs less than 90 to me. Surprisingly, she is very strong, the ht she achieved in those throw triple twist exceeded Shen. Her landing edge in all her throw jumps covered 1/4 t0 1/3 of the rink.

    I don't know what they mean by "weakness". I hope she gain some wt and her strength. I don't think she is anorexic in the anorexic nervosa sense, i.e. try to gain control by losing wt.
    Last edited by gezando; 03-02-2005 at 04:44 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller
    This is so sad. She has been looking thinner than ever, of late.
    Maybe the stress? Since she has to match their placement of last year worlds. I watched their first competetion in SA, she looked very stressed up.

  7. #22
    bugs are smarter than we are bronxgirl's Avatar
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    Gezando,
    Weakness is far too vague of a symptom for me to have any idea of what could be happening. I've never seen these skaters in person, only on TV, so I don't even have an accurate idea of her true height. Weakness could be anything. I hope she doesn't have an eating disorder, or that the Chinese Federation is deliberately underfeeding her. I just hope that she is well soon, and can skate (feeling fully recovered) at Worlds.

  8. #23
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    I think the Qing Pang hasa thin frame by nature, I won't deny that it is a very thin frame to my standards. I think it shows more with her because she is tall, taller than the average female pair skaters. I see Dan Zhang (from the Zhangs) and even though she is also a tall girl, she looks as if she is more built up that Qing.

    I wanted to share an excerpt from "The Second Mark" that talks about the weight issue.

    The outside world spilled in through the gates every morning, when the street sellers pushed a few carts onto the edge of the campus. Decked out in their national team jackets, the skaters walked the two hundred yards from the dorm to the practice rink and caught a whiff of hot coals, sweet buns, meat on a stick. But no skater ever slapped a coin on the counter and ordered a hot doughnut. The skaters weighed in three times a week, and if Yao Bin's girls gained even a quarter pound, he punished them.

    Only once had Shen Xue failed one of Yao's weigh-ins. During one of her parents' rare visits to Beijing she had drunk two bottles of Coca-Cola, and she found herself half a pound overweight on the day of the weigh-in. Automatically she received the standard punishment: For three days she had to stop eating with the team and go to a separate cafeteria where the sport administrators ate. "Normally athletes try to avoid being noticed by the leaders," Shen Xue explains. "But when you go to the other cafeteria, all of the leaders take their meals there. When they see an athlete there, they will ask, 'Well, what? Are you overweight?' It's nothing less than a press conference."

    Humiliated in front of the leaders, Shen Xue could hardly swallow her food, and she quickly dropped the weight. From that day on she never went over her allotted hundred pounds again. Her discipline was more ferocious than her hunger. Sometimes a skater's mother came to the dorm in the afternoon with a bag of roasted corn, or a dish of meat or fish cooked at home. But when the skaters shared the dish, Shen Xue took only enough to be polite. Whenever she reached for the tongs on the athlete's buffet, no matter how her stomach ached, she measured out her food precisely. The most conspicuous object in her room was a scale.
    Now this might seem as though the Chinese federation urges athletes to harm themselve, but I don't think so. The have their own medical staff in the training campus, so I'm sure they look after their athletes health. When Xue started to practice the throw quad salchow, they also took meassures to look after her:

    Her father continues, "The officials later told me,'We have taken all possible measures to protect her.' The tam doctors, the coaches and the sport administration officials--they would all be there when they where trying this quadruple jump. the sport research institute was there too. Also an ambulance
    back to Qing, I really hope she's fine. She is an outstanding skater!

  9. #24
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    I haven't seen much of pairs skating this year, so I can't really comment on how Pang has been looking. I would say I would not think the Chinese Federation is above limiting the weight of their female pairs skaters in such a manner (we're talking about a country that recruits children and places them in special sports schools away from their parents) and with all the throws and the twists, I can see the relevance of a weight limit on the skaters (it makes it easier for the male partner to throw/lift/spins his female partner).

    The question I have is, if Pang is developing an eating disorder, whether this is a particular case or a reflection of the Chinese Federation's policy. For example, are the same kinds of symptoms evident in some of the other female pairs skaters, such as Dan Zhang or Yang Ding?

  10. #25
    Custom Title brad640's Avatar
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    I have found Pang and Tong hard to watch in the past because of her skeletal appearance and fragile legs. I don't know how she is able to land those throws. Her legs are so thin they look like they could snap or shatter when she lands.

    It makes me sad to see athletes exploited by their federation. I am reminded of how East Germany gave their athletes in multiple disciplines performance enhancing drugs that later had a detrimental and sometimes devestating effect on their health (I have always wondered how Katarina Witt has escaped suspicion after all that has come out about the East German machine). If there is truth to the allegations that the Chinese federation is abusing athletes, then the IOC should have launched investigations before awarding the 2008 games to Beijing.

    Hopefully Pang will be able to recover and move on.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad640
    Hopefully Pang will be able to recover and move on.
    Anyone here explicitly mention that Pang has eating disorder caused sickness? If not I see how 'rumor' gets started.

  12. #27
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    I haven't watched 4C's yet, but I do agree that Pang looks extremely thin. Regardless of her career, I would think that she is too thin. Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing what her natural weight is because none of saw her before she gained success in ice skating. I haven't seen them enough to form an opinion as to whether or not she as lost weight since appearing on the world scene.

    I'd also like to point out that Shen's acceptable weight (as per quote from book) is 100 pounds. That doesn't mean that all of the ladies have the same requirement. Pang's could be higher because of her height.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyang
    I'd also like to point out that Shen's acceptable weight (as per quote from book) is 100 pounds. That doesn't mean that all of the ladies have the same requirement. Pang's could be higher because of her height.
    It also doesn't point out which year Shen was limited to 100 pounds. As she got older, they may have increased the limit. I doubt that she would weigh much over 100 pounds anyway. She's such a tiny person.


    ETA: I can easily imagine how this type of environment can lead to eating disorders if you are already predisposed to this problem. It's not that strict here in the States and people develop eating disorders all the time.
    Last edited by mpal2; 03-02-2005 at 10:08 PM.

  14. #29
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    This is surprising

    Actually, I find her condition surprising. I would also find her strict attention to every pound surprising because Pang and Tong are obviously a pair with a committed relationship to skating together. They work out and train in a disciplined environment with attention paid to them.

    As they skate together and work out together, they should become very strong due to muscular development. As she would gain weight slowly, so would he from lifting, etc. How they look and how strong they are on the ice in the pair is more important than abiding by strict weight measurements.

    Any good coach or system developing a skater(s) would realize the detrimental effects of eating disorders on the skater, whether acquired or self-induced, so it all doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Maybe she is just thin, and they keep it that way, without encouraging her to eat protein and get more muscular. It just seems odd that this could occur by direction, and possibly the girl herself has something to do with it.

  15. #30
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Whatever is meant by 'weakness' could well be interpreted in so many ways.

    Whatever her ailment is, if she does have an ailment, I can't believe the Chinese Federation would not do everything possible for her. The team is to be the successors to S&Z after 2006.

    Regardless of her wanting to be 'independent' (who doesn't?), if she knows there is something serious, she will do something about it.

    From what I saw at the GPs was that she looked a lot more fuller than the previous year.

    Joe

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