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Thread: Article about Jr. Worlds / Kimmie

  1. #1
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Article about Jr. Worlds / Kimmie

    Here is a link to the complete article that I've taken the excerpt from about Kimmie.

    http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/curre...jrworlds05.htm

    "Meissner finished fourth after singling her final two jumps; the second Lutz and the triple flip in combination. She said, 'I was really stupid at the end of my program. It was disappointing but the beginning was good. I stopped thinking, I guess." She landed four triples, opting not to try the triple Axel. "We decided that was a better choice under code of points until I am more consistent," Meissner explained.

    Meissner competes here instead of the 2005 World Championships because she missed the 15 year old by July 1 ISU rule deadline, even though she was the US bronze medalist this January. Meissner's coach Pam Gregory called the rule "a stupid one." She then added, "Why not let the best compete?" Her coach felt Meissner peaked at the U.S. championships and that it was harder for Meissner to be as excited about the world championships since she competed at the event the year before and medalled (bronze)."

    End quote from the article.

    I'm always hesitant to take articles like this as gospel just because it's so easy for things to sometimes appear out of context. I was a bit wide eyed when I read the part about Kimmie's difficulty being excited about this competition. Heck, it's the World Championships for her age group! I hope this was some sort of misunderstanding on the part of the interviewer or Kimmie's coach rather than an indicator of "attitude" based on Kimmie's recent press.

    I enjoy her skating and look forward to her continued development. Being in the spotlight prematurely is not always a good thing. I hope she doesn't fall prey to thinking she's a "star" long before she really is.

    DG

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    Figure Skating Fan Hikaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggygirl
    Here is a link to the complete article that I've taken the excerpt from about Kimmie.

    http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/curre...jrworlds05.htm

    "Meissner finished fourth after singling her final two jumps; the second Lutz and the triple flip in combination. She said, 'I was really stupid at the end of my program. It was disappointing but the beginning was good. I stopped thinking, I guess." She landed four triples, opting not to try the triple Axel. "We decided that was a better choice under code of points until I am more consistent," Meissner explained.

    Meissner competes here instead of the 2005 World Championships because she missed the 15 year old by July 1 ISU rule deadline, even though she was the US bronze medalist this January. Meissner's coach Pam Gregory called the rule "a stupid one." She then added, "Why not let the best compete?" Her coach felt Meissner peaked at the U.S. championships and that it was harder for Meissner to be as excited about the world championships since she competed at the event the year before and medalled (bronze)."

    End quote from the article.

    I'm always hesitant to take articles like this as gospel just because it's so easy for things to sometimes appear out of context. I was a bit wide eyed when I read the part about Kimmie's difficulty being excited about this competition. Heck, it's the World Championships for her age group! I hope this was some sort of misunderstanding on the part of the interviewer or Kimmie's coach rather than an indicator of "attitude" based on Kimmie's recent press.

    I enjoy her skating and look forward to her continued development. Being in the spotlight prematurely is not always a good thing. I hope she doesn't fall prey to thinking she's a "star" long before she really is.

    DG

    I agree with you, and it is hard to really take a position from the way the article is written, but I don't understand why would Coach Gregory say the rule is stupid, I'm more inlcined to imagine she said that in the context of the rule not allowing Meissner to go to Senior Worlds after winning the bronze medal, which of course automatically would put her in the senior world team. However, Coach Gregory had to know, even before Nationals, that even if Kimmie had won Nationals, she couldn't have gone to senior worlds because of the rule, so it is not as if it came as a big shock for them. Kimmie is talented, but she still needs to develope more, to see her at her best

  3. #3
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikaru
    I agree with you, and it is hard to really take a position from the way the article is written, but I don't understand why would Coach Gregory say the rule is stupid, I'm more inlcined to imagine she said that in the context of the rule not allowing Meissner to go to Senior Worlds after winning the bronze medal, which of course automatically would put her in the senior world team. However, Coach Gregory had to know, even before Nationals, that even if Kimmie had won Nationals, she couldn't have gone to senior worlds because of the rule, so it is not as if it came as a big shock for them. Kimmie is talented, but she still needs to develope more, to see her at her best
    Kimmie is still so young, and I don't think it will do her ANY good for the media, and ESPECIALLY the adults (coaches and others) around her to "hint" about how she's being robbed because of the rules that ALL junior skaters have to deal with. Not a good lesson for a teenager IMO. I truly hope I'm reading more into recent events that what's really there.

    DG

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    Ice Angel
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    The rule was made far before 2005 nationals, and I'm sure Kimmie and her coach knew this. Saying the rule is stupid in public only let themselves look not smart. I'm not sure if they made the comment before Kimmie's long and short or after. The reality is there are other girls who are even younger than Kimmie and did great jobs at the Junior world. Even if the age rule did not exist, can Kimmie definitely do better at Sr. world than her performance at Jr. world?

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    The quote in question does, however, give interesting insight into the emotional ebbs and flows of a skating season. Obviously you want to do your best at every event. But you don't always have full control over your emotions -- and hence, over your body, when the time comes. I can well imagine that Kimmie's midset was to elevate the U.S. Nationals to primary place. It was the first time that she really got to skate against the "big girls" with a legitimate chance of making her mark -- and she did!

    Like Michelle. After Michelle won the World Junior Championship, the next year her coach wanted to keep her in juniors for another year. Well, nuts to that, said Michelle, and she snuck off and took the senior level test. (And the rest is history, LOL. Frank told her, you silly child, you don't have any concept of what you just got yourself into. But what's done is done, here we go!)

    I thought this paragraph was funny:

    "Czisny gave a balletic performance to "Swan Lake" but opted to pop her triple Salchow and fell on her double Axel right in front of the judges. She completed five triples in her program (triple Lutz - double toe loop combination, triple flip, triple loop, triple Lutz, and a triple toeloop) but placed 8th in the freeskate to finish sixth overall. She does take home a silver short program medal. "I learned from my qualifying and my short program but I still have to figure out what I learned from this long program."

    She "opted" to pop her jump?

    That's how I feel when I mess up big time. I'm sure there must be a lesson for me there somewhere, but I'm darned if I know what it might be!

    Mathman

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    I feel badly for Kimmie. She is a good skater and has alot left to show the world, I just don't agree that she should be allowed to go to Worlds. She has lots to still learn, and I don't think she'd even make top 10 at Senior Worlds. Her 3axel is great and I am majorly excited that a US lady is able to do that and push the sport like she is doing, B-U-T, right now she needs work in other areas before she should be competing with the best of the best.

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    Junior Worlds

    I agree Fossi, I saw Kimmie at the sending off party at Un of De. I think Kimmie is a cute normal 15yr old and her skating is very good in jumps and other elements however she is very young and does not connect to the music at all. She is doing elements and what she needs to do but is thinking her way through the program. I hope she is allowed to grow and progress and not get caught up in all the hype. She is 15 not 25 and can only be emotionally a 15 yr. old. Senior Worlds is not where she should be, she would be eaten alive with the big girls. Let her develop for a few yrs.

  8. #8
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    I thought this paragraph was funny:

    "Czisny gave a balletic performance to "Swan Lake" but opted to pop her triple Salchow and fell on her double Axel right in front of the judges. She completed five triples in her program (triple Lutz - double toe loop combination, triple flip, triple loop, triple Lutz, and a triple toeloop) but placed 8th in the freeskate to finish sixth overall. She does take home a silver short program medal. "I learned from my qualifying and my short program but I still have to figure out what I learned from this long program."

    She "opted" to pop her jump?

    That's how I feel when I mess up big time. I'm sure there must be a lesson for me there somewhere, but I'm darned if I know what it might be!

    Mathman
    That IS funny. Next time I trip over my own two feet I'll remember I opted to do that!

    DG

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    Cianni and Fossi, I agree totally with your assessment of Kimmie. Junior Worlds is the right place for her this year, not Senior Worlds. I know she and her coach are disappointed about not going to Senior Worlds. But I feel Kimmie's not ready for that level of competition yet. The ladies' field is pretty competitive right now internationally, and it seems likely that going to Senior Worlds wouldn't lead to anything much, except just getting Kimmie's name out there in front of the judges. And although that is undeniably important, I still think it's best for Kimmie, in terms of her long-term career, to take things slowly and gradually.

    I'll bet Kimmie and her coach are thinking a lot about Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes, and the fact that competing at Worlds when they were younger than 16 eventually helped those skaters win Olympic gold. They're probably thinking it isn't fair that Kimmie's being denied the chances that Tara and Sarah got. And in a way, it isn't fair.

    But I do think it's the best thing, for both Kimmie as a person and the sport as a whole, that the ISU is now moving away from the rules and trends that produced the 16-and-under ladies Olympic champions in the 1990s and early 2000s.

    The story of Tara Lipinski should be a cautionary tale, as well as an inspiration, for young skaters. When I see Kimmie practicing triple Axels, my immediate thought is always that I hope she doesn't pay the same price for the triple Axel that Tara did for the triple loop/triple loop.

    If I were one of the adults in Kimmie's life, I think I would honestly be relieved to have her at Junior Worlds this year, not Seniors, and to have another year for her to be young and relatively carefree, before she starts facing the pressures of Seniors.

    Kimmie's coach evidently does not feel that way. To some extent I have to wonder if her own ambitions aren't coloring her attitude, as much as genuine concern for Kimmie. Let's face it, she's a relatively young and unknown coach who is probably extremely eager to get to Worlds and Olympics for the sake of her own career, as much as Kimmie's.

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    Michelle was just 15 in 1996 when she won her first world title. Oksana was just 15 when she won hers. Tara won hers at 14, and she did have injury problems. Plushneko won a bronze at the senior world level at age 15 and he had injury problems after about 5 years at the senior level (not just in one or two years) I do believe if a skater is good enough to compete in the senior worlds he/she should be allowed to. I do believe the rule is stupid. If the skaters are going for the difficult jumps at the jr. worlds level, how can they be protected? If they really want to protect young skaters, they will have to ban the difficult jumps.

    Vash

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    Rinkside
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    Michelle was just 15 in 1996 when she won her first world title. Oksana was just 15 when she won hers. Tara won hers at 14, and she did have injury problems. Plushneko won a bronze at the senior world level at age 15 and he had injury problems after about 5 years at the senior level (not just in one or two years) I do believe if a skater is good enough to compete in the senior worlds he/she should be allowed to. I do believe the rule is stupid. If the skaters are going for the difficult jumps at the jr. worlds level, how can they be protected? If they really want to protect young skaters, they will have to ban the difficult jumps.

    Vash
    Point well taken, BUT Kimmie is nowhere near the level that these folks were when they won their events at 14-15. She doesn't have the sophistication in her skating yet. Another year may make all of the difference.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Mathman is correct about the ebb and flow of competition.It's not exactly ideal to get up at 5am everymorning and get to the rink to be coached. Eventually skating a competition all in the middle of winter. If you win, you are upbeat. If you do not win, you have to face the LONG HOT SUMMER

    In Kimmie's case she was upbeat after the Nats but couldn't bring that feeling to Juniors. Now she faces that long hot summer . What she does with that time is really up to her. I'm hoping it is determination to stay the course and come back to her next competition with renewed vigor.

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Like Michelle. After Michelle won the World Junior Championship, the next year her coach wanted to keep her in juniors for another year. Well, nuts to that, said Michelle, and she snuck off and took the senior level test.
    No. Remember that "junior" in the US is a test level and internationally it's determined by age.

    In 1992 Michelle finished 9th at Nationals at the junior level. She then chose to test up to senior for the 1993 season (behind her coach's back, so the story goes) and qualified for Nationals as a senior her first year, age 12, and placed 6th. On the strength of that senior-level finish, she was invited to the 1993 Olympic Festival, which she won and which was the qualifier for the 1994 junior world team. So she went to 1994 Junior Worlds (held in Dec. 1993) and won that, and a few weeks later she finished 2nd at 1994 Nationals, her second year competing domestically at the senior level, at age 13.

    Because the current age rules were not then in effect, as a 13-year-old she could be named as the alternate to the 94 Olympic team and could compete at Worlds that year. . . . And the rest is history.

  14. #14
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    It's seems odd that skating as a junior is supposed to protect a skaters, when the only things I can see that are different are that the LP is shorter, there is one less element in the LP, and the 3Lo is the required triple in the SP. Given the stress the loop puts on the hips and shoulder, it would seem "safer" to allow the 3F.

    I don't understand why it would have been such a problem if Meissner went to Sr. Worlds and didn't place in the top 10. Kirk didn't last year, and the world didn't fall apart. Kirk couldn't deliver the technical goods at Nationals, and her presentation skills -- completely separate from artistry -- weren't all that great. Why is there a different standard for Meissner? So what if she went to Worlds and placed in the top 20 in her first try. That's what Lipinski did, and she barely qualified before delivering a top 10 LP.

    There's also a difference between knowing a rule is in place and thinking that it's stupid -- and anyone, including Mao Asada and her coach can see how the rule change has made it impossible to get the senior international exposure to win an Olympics or Worlds at an early age, like Kwan, Baiul, Lipinski, and Hughes -- and being surprised.

    I preferred Asada's winning LP at Jr. Worlds to Slutskaya's winning LP at Europeans. She's the one I wish could compete at Sr. Worlds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyfan228
    It's seems odd that skating as a junior is supposed to protect a skaters, when the only things I can see that are different are that the LP is shorter, there is one less element in the LP, and the 3Lo is the required triple in the SP. Given the stress the loop puts on the hips and shoulder, it would seem "safer" to allow the 3F.
    The required jump out of steps in the junior short program rotates among loop, flip, and lutz on a three-year cycle. Double or triple is allowed.

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