the quad « disease »

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proKwan

Guest

• Jan 21, 2003

• #1

the quad « disease »

When the quadruple jumps first appeared (with Browning & Stojko), I thought they were exiting, now I wish more than ever that they’d just disappear ! Men’s skating has become boring and redundant because of the quads. The male skaters are now jumping machines with no personnality, no real choreography and no charisma, with only a few exceptions such as Alexei Yagudin, Brian Joubert, and (for some!) Plushenko . Their (the "quad masters") programs are marred with quads and triple jumps and very little else.

Another thing that I find annoying about the quadruple jumps is that a lot of guys are willing to shoot themselves in the foot by trying a quad in competition knowing they havn’t come close to consistantly landing it in practice. They seem to think they’re gonna land it perfectly just by magic. 99 % of the times they end up falling on the quad attemps and derailing the rest of their program. And they end up 12th after the short program. Why don’t they stick to a 3-axel combination and rank 5th in the short program instead of in 12th place.

Anyone else feeling annoyed by all the quads ? Is it just me ?

 

J

Joesitz

Guest

• Jan 21, 2003

• #2

Re: the quad « desease »

It shouldn't be boring. Plush's SP at Bofrost for me was quite something.

But I get your point. They skate around in circles until all the quads are complete and then begin their figure skating routine. If they could just incorporate the quads into the whole package rather than keeping them separate, I would be happy for quads. However, even if that could be accomplished it would not, for me, to be the most important factor in the marks.

Joe

 

R

rain

Guest

• Jan 21, 2003

• #3

quads

I don't have a problem with including, say, 1 quad - to show you can do it. It is a sport after all and it is a difficult skill.

But I agree with you that the programs most of the men are currently doing are marred by too many jumps and to little of anything else including personality. How many of them just skate around, trying to land three quads a program? Even when they're successful it's usually of little interest to me. There's a lot more to skating. I just think they might look at putting a cap on how many quads per program or something of that nature.

I also think the emphasis on so many difficult jumps is physically hurting skaters at this point. Too many injuries and the long-term stress on their bodies is unreal.

And how about some more emphasis on things such as quality spins, footwork, different entrances to jumps and combinations of moves.

That's my take.

 

A

AY2006

Guest

• Jan 21, 2003

• #4

Re: quads

There are two things that can be done about this problem.

1. Change the Zayak rule (which was made before the quad era) so that skaters cannot include two quad toes and two triple toes in a program. (i.e., quad and triple toes -- or Salchows -- should count as the "same" jump for this purpose.)

2. Reward clean triples more than failed quads so that skaters will not attemp jump they cannot land consistently.

Unfortunately, ISU is trying to move to the opposite direction with the new scoring system.

 

C

CB1AB2

Guest

• Jan 21, 2003

• #5

Re: quads

I think that at last years nationals (2002) Matt S. said something like this ( don't quote me) to reporters =I am not doing a quad in my program so don't expect to see one= I liked that=he was honest and up front.

I like his style of skating.

cb

 

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La Brum

Guest

• Jan 21, 2003

• #6

Re: quads

I would not mind if I never saw a quad again.
The triples are difficult and exciting enough.

 

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Princess Leppard 625

Guest

• Jan 21, 2003

• #7

Re: quads

<span style="colorurple;font-family:georgia;font-size:x-small;">I wouldn't mind a limit on the number of quads....one in combination, one on it's own. This would prevent non-artists like Timmy from throwing in four in hopes of increasing the technical mark. And I agree, if Matt Savoie has a clean program with no quad, let's score it higher than, say, Chianjiang Li, who might land one quad and tank on another, but has no artistry...

Alas, the new system leaves no hope of that....

Laura </span>

 

K

Kzarah

Guest

• Jan 21, 2003

• #8

Re: quads

I love quads. I think that the mens presentation is just as good and sometimes better than they ever were. It's just the US men who suck, (in presentation.)
Daniel and Little Lulu

 

K

Kzarah

Guest

• Jan 21, 2003

• #9

Re: quads

I would like to add that we are really looking forward to more of the ladies doing quads and triple axels.
Daniel and Little Lulu

 

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LADSKATER

Guest

• Jan 21, 2003

• #10

Re: the quad « disease »

proKwan:

I think the quad has become too much of the focus for the skaters and therefore they are neglecting the finer points of skating. Some of them barely have the triple axel under their belt and are trying to learn a quad or two at the same time. I agree it has taken men's skating quality down a notch or two. The men are forced to sacrifice good quality skating for another turn in the air. It must be very frustrating for skaters like Jeff Buttle and Fedor Andreev - who are both artistic - to have to "rise to the occasion" and attempt a quad - and end up sacrificing their artistry to please the judges.

One of my favorite programs by Kurt Browning (Nyah) does not even include one jump in the entire program. Kurt is so masterful at footwork and interepreting the music that one does not even miss the jumps.

If the men never did another quad again - I would not miss it - I would rather see good triples along with quality footwork and artistry.

Maybe we could lobby the ISU to change the rules.

Good point!

Ladskater

 

H

heyang

Guest

• Jan 21, 2003

• #11

Re: the quad « disease »

IMHO, I wouldn't miss the quad. It generally makes the mens competition a splatfest right now. As another poster said, the artistry is gone because so much energy is placed in hoping to complete the revolutions on the quad. Boring.

Give my Hamilton, Browning, Boitano, Wylie and post 96 Galindo any time.

 

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nysk8r

Guest

• Jan 22, 2003

• #12

Re: the quad « disease »

I personally want to see more artistry and not 4 quads in one program (coughcough*timothygoebel*coughcough). Quads aren't bad, but having them be the focus of your skating isn't good- not just for artistry's sake but also for their health. Alexi might be saying goodbye to amatuers or just skating in general ( I know he had that hip injury since birth, but those quads didn't exactly help him). Tim just got over a hip injury and then he recently announces that he'll attempt 4 quads???
I'm a little worrysome about male skaters in general if this trend continues. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

 

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shanilia

Guest

• Jan 22, 2003

• #13

Re: the quad « disease »

Quads are evidence of figure skating's difficulty level in jumps increasing over the decades. There was a time when doubles were the norm. Then triples. Then 6-7 triples were the norm. Then the triple axel. Now the quad.

As you can see, the athletic part of the sport has increased in difficulty over the years. It's the same thing in gymnastics. But anyway, I wonder what's next after the quad. Quintuple?? I'm guessing programs will now require 8-9 jumps to follow the trend of the increasing difficulty level for jumps in figure skating.

 

I

Icestar

Guest

• Jan 22, 2003

• #14

disease ?

I agree with Shanilia, you must realize figure skating is in fact a "sport". If you want to see beautiful skating with few jumps there is Stars on Ice and Gala exhibitions.

In the 1988 Olympics the triple axel was the big thing. How many men were trying to put 2 of them in the long program and were successful at it. Now it's the quad. The top skaters can add it without interrupting their flow, the rest will struggle.

The quad does not mean everything as we saw at US Nationals with Ryan coming ahead of Scott without doing a quad and presenting his program very nicely.

 

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SteveKmetko374

Guest

• Jan 22, 2003

• #15

Re: disease ?

for some, the quad will kill their chances, like it did for some women with triples (like Lucinda Ruh) but I think the men have stepped up (not the US men) to show that you can combine quads with great artistry: Plushenko, Yagudin, Abt, and Brian Joubert (my little french sweetie pie) just to name a few.

 

K

Kzarah

Guest

• Jan 22, 2003

• #16

disease ?

Jumps are art
Daniel and Little Lulu

 

P

Princess Leppard 625

Guest

• Jan 22, 2003

• #17

Re: disease ?

<span style="colorurple;font-family:georgia;font-size:x-small;">I agree that jumps are art. Evgeni's 3a-half loop-3flip is spectacular to watch, as his 4-3-3. But I also love everything that he does in between the jumps.

Timmy is a great jumper and a great spinner, but watching the rest of his program is like watching paint dry. Ditch the 4 planned quads and take some freakin' ballet lessons!

Cheers,

Laura </span>

 

J

Joesitz

Guest

• Jan 22, 2003

• #18

Re: disease ?

How important are jumps in a rountine? It depends on what you are talking about; Are you super hyped for the ultimate in air rotations as being the end all in judging figure skating?
If so, I agee with you. Nothing matters than the air turns; quads, quints or whatever.

If, however, you are talkng about more esthetic figure skating, than you must explain whcih is more important for you in the final analysis. Is it super jumps or super skating?

Your move
Joe

 

L

LADSKATER

Guest

• Jan 22, 2003

• #19

Re: the quad « disease »

shanilia:

It's true, jumping is a "main stay" of skating and the emphasis has always been on improving ones jumping abilities; however, I do believe there will be a point where things will level off - the human body can only take so much stress. The "quint" has been mentioned by a few - but like the quad how many skaters will actually achieve five rotations - and would it really be worth it? In the end it is the skater who has the "whole package" that counts with the judges. They too are looking for quality - not just jumping ability.

Maybe one day we will see the return of figures. Now there was an "exacting" discipline! Believe it or not figures are the most difficult discipline in figure skating. They may not look all that intimidating - but require a tremendous amount of skill to perfect. Maybe figures were the best "measuring rod" of all.

Ladskater

 

D

DORISPULASKI

Guest

• Jan 23, 2003

• #20

Re: the quad « disease »

I have seen some beautiful routines with quads, and some without. I do worry about skater's health. Solutions like the hinged boot come to mind. Also about delaying the quad onset. If I recall from my childhood, little girls were not allowed to get ballet toe shoes until they were old enough for them not to damage their feet with them. I wonder whether one should delay taking the quad to the ice until one is older.
The problem is not the whack on the landing (see the old thread about the height of quads being the same as triples). It is the torque applied to the hip joint, so the age should be the age at which your hip joints are up to it.

Todd, although he never landed many clean quads in competition, practiced them for a lot of years, starting when older, without damaging himself. There may be something to learn there.

There is also the problem of damage to the leg you are picking in with. Think Michelle's toe loop problem, and Matt's toe loop problem. Iwonder what could be done to cushion the blow for the skaters to keep them healthy longer (and preferably, permanently well). I wonder if this problem is caused by skaters trying to get extra height to get a quad when the key to quads is faster rotation, and getting into the rotation as quickly as possible (without cheating).

dpp