What makes you sit up for a skater?

What makes you sit up for a skater?

A poll would not really handle this. Here is a list of some characteristics of figure skating. Put them in the order of importance of what you consider to be a champion.

edges, flow, footwork, costumes, ballet line, flexibility, spins, combo spins, jumps, combo jumps, musicality, other characteristics I've left out.

<span style="text-decoration:underline">Order of Importance for Me:</span>

Flow - this is basic. this was the beginning of skating. without it I couldn't care less about the quad.

Edges - basically that's defining flow. Must have.

Footwork - get the flow and edges together and work on excellent connecting steps. Keep it constantly in the routine.

Musicality - To make the above three produce harmony in the routine. Without it, sorry no skate.

Jumps - Absolutely daring and exciting element of figure skating. Must have flow into and out of.

Spins - absolutely unique and beautifuly element of figure skating. Must have flow into and an appropriate finish.

Combo Jumps - Only if they have full run out after each one. Otherwise, I do not give credit for trying.

Combo Spins - Only if they have enough rotations in each sector. Otherwise, it just doesn't work for me.

Ballet Line - Makes figure skating look good but I don't think it's absolutely necessary if one can show me another approach

Flexibility - As long as it looks pretty. I'm not a big on acrobatic feats. Suppleness will do.

What do you think? Order of importance and anything else!

Joe

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

For the most part I'd say it is somewhat intangible. I have no skating/dance background, so I don't watch with a technical eye. I don't notice nuances like hip position. What it comes down to for me is does the skater grab me? Do they have that intangible quality that draws me in to what they are doing? From the beginning, I was drawn in to MK's skating. Same for AP, Yags, Wylie, Kristie, Kurt, G&G, and Boitano. Sasha grabbed my attention this year.

A few things that drive me crazy, though, are no in betweens, poor extension, not holding a position, and half-a**ed footwork.

tharrtell

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

I can't improve on your list or your ordering, Joe.

But here's something ominous. If we agree (at least we two :lol: ) that Flow, Edges, Footwork and Musicality are the big four; then jumps and spins emphasizing run-out; and only then athletic feats like combos -- this bodes ill for the new point system of judging, which would pretty much turn your list upside down.

Maybe I'll have to rethink my position about, let's give the new system a chance!

Mathman

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

I agree with the order Joe put. But I want to add some.

Where do you put "speed"? A lot of speed and shallow edges or deep edges and moderate speed? I would choose the latter.

Where do you put "choreography"? Certainly, you cannot have good choreography without good musicality, line, etc. But a skater with great musicality, line, flexibility could skate to an entirely dull program. I would not enjoy those program.

Finally, costume always comes at last for me. I would rather see Kwan or Yagudin skate in practice outfits than seeing some of the most spectacular costumes.

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

Firest and foremost, it's musicality/artistry. They are not the same thing, but in this very specific context, I'm referring to a skater's ability to interpret music and project the interpretation through movement and expression. A hefty dose of that would grab my attention immediately, no matter what skater it is. This is why Michelle Kwan and Alexei Yagudin are my two favorite skaters. They've both proven themselves capable of making lots of people feel their programs. And in Michelle's case, her ability to interpret complicated musical themes and project them successfully (starting with Salome and onto Miraculous Mandarin) is particularly impressive. Alexei Yagudin, on the other hand, has intensity. His projection is great and awesome.

The second thing that grabs me about a skater is a flow. Ice skating is a very unique form of dance movement. There's a lot of speed and motion that's impossible for other dance surfaces. It's the unique thing that draws me to skating. As my ballet friend pointed out, skating looks "weird" to him because people can move fast even while holding a position (think spirals). The seemingly effortless movement (even though it takes greater control and balance) enchants me. And guess what? It's what endears me to Michelle, too. Her spirals I simply love.

The third thing that would make me look at a skater more is taste. Some skaters just use awful costumes, music, choreography, hairstyle, makeup and so on. They can still have excellent skating, but I just don't want to look at them as much. This is one reason I can't stand ice dancing, as the majority of ice dancers flunk out in every one of the taste categories. On the other hand, if a skater is tasteful, I'm more apt to give him/her more attention. Once again, Michelle wins this criteria. No skater, or even any celebrity I can think of, has as much taste as Michelle Kwan, by my standards. Her choice in every detail makes her easier to look at. Viva La Kwan!

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

For me in skating, it's about the feet and the blade- edges, flow, extension. I like the spirals, the ina bauers, the spread eagles, the great runout on the jump.

I dislike the foot hanging like a limp sausage while doing the layback, even though it is a legal position.

I barely notice what the arms are doing so skaters like Maria B who have lovely arms and ugly feet leave me completely cold.

I like to see the musicality of a skater, and the skater's ability to relate to the audience, because, what the heck, I like to be related to, just like any other audience member. I also like the jumps on the crescendo.

I love creative entrances into skills, and seeing completely new ways to do things, so I like Klimkin.

dpp

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

The first three things that make me sit up for a skater is their flow/speed, edges and body lines. IMO these three basic aspects immediately indicate that the individual is a *talented* *skater*. Musicality comes next. However, I don't consider "great expression" or "flair" the same as musicality. To me, musicality is "moving in accord to the essence of the music".
But then, there are talented "performers", talented "crowd teasers", talented "footworkers", talented "dancers", and talented "jumpers".

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

AY - thanks for pointing out speed and choreography. I also left out depicting a character.

The speed is in the flow and with the music. It is not, imo, important to charge into a spin a la Anton Ohno. The flow moves the skater from trick to trick with no noticeable holding edges before a jump like those who appear to be speeding around. Yuka Sato flows like a bullet but you would never know it, as an example.

The choreography and the depicting of a character I suppose go together. A skater who has no talent for choreographing can still sell a well choreographed program by bringing him/her self into the whole package.

Fetal - I also think Kwan is a very special skater for bringing so much to a performance and without all the tricks. She commands attention as she moves onto the ice.

Joe

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

Pretty much your list Joe:

Line - pointed toes; good posture

Edge Quality - deep edges; smooth transitions

Flow - how they move from one element to the next
speed - how fast they cover the ice

Musicality - how well they use their music - are they listening to it and connecting with it or just skating to it?

footwork - quick; intricate (like Kurt)

Spins - well centred; fast; enough rotations

Field moves - like spread eagles

Interesting turns and entrances to jumps and do they finish everything?

I really don't care how many turns in the air they do in their jumps as long as the quality is there and the jumps are properly executed.

Fedor Andreev and Jeff Buttle both made me "sit up" and take notice at Canadians!!

Ladskater

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

Ladd - I wish I could have seen Canadian Nats. Maybe someday with the Ice Channel. Will have to wait for Worlds with Buttle. Poor Andreev.

When I read your list and other poster's comments, I began to wonder how difficult it is to really judge a figure skating contest. There is so much to cover and to put a fair mark down within 2-5 minutes is awesome.

Maybe the judges in a competition should retire to a 'jury' room and discuss the competition for at least a half hour but as long as they want. Take a vote. Come out and announce the results.

Joe

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

1) Michelle Kwan
2) Alexei Yagudin
3) Music
4) Choreography
5) Footwork
6) Jumps
7) Random interesting moves (Like Eman Sandhu's head shake in his 02-02 LP)

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

<span style="color:red;font-family:century gothic;font-size:medium;">Joe:

This one was a tough call, but I would have given it to Fedor. Sandhu did have a lot of content, but overall, I think Fedor outskated him. Good thing I am at home judging!


Ladskater</span>

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

One thing that makes me sit up and take notice is when a skater's program has, for lack of a better word, <strong>integritiy</strong>.

Michelle's 1998 East of Eden, the 2000 Red Violin, and the 2002 Fields of Gold are good examples of this. To me, integrity means that all the parts of the choreography conspire to produce a seamless whole. The connecting moves should flow from one element to the next in a way that, looking back after the program is done, makes them seem inevitable. Yet looking forward, when seeing the program for the first time, it is full of surprise and wonder.

IMHO this is the hallmark of Lori Nichol's genius for michelle Kwan. Her programs always build to a series of little internal climaxes, like promises fulfilled. But at the same time, as the theme develops, each satisfaction contains the seed of a new promise of even greater pleasure ahead, until finally, when we do reach the end, we discover that all of our expectations have been exceeded, and that Michelle has met promises that we hadn't even known she had made.

Mathman

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

Aside from that intangible something: Power and the ability to skate and move large while maintaining good technique--but not holding back for the sake of technique. I like skaters and dancers who move out of their safety zones, those who can teeter on the edge and still bring it back to center. I like that in most things--music, art, literature, acting, etc. Ilia Kulik, Kurt Browning, Paul Wylie, Oksana Baiul, Irina, Katia Gordeeva skating pairs, and Grishuk & Platov are good examples off the top of my head.
Rgirl

Re: What makes you sit up for a skater?

Definitely musicality is #1 for me. That's what makes a program enjoyable to watch.

Good line is #2. How can a program be enjoyable if the positions look bad?

I don't have an opinion about the other characteristics.