Article re Ladies QR

kyla2 · Mar 16, 2005

Michelle

I agree to some degree with what you have all said. I don't think the coaching chnages have improved Michelle. Since she left Frank she has maintained and not elevated her game. Irina on the other hand has elevated her game. She has added difficulty to her spiral, increased her jump combinations and improved her spins in a significant way. I feel terrible saying this because Michelle is still my favorite skater, but it's the truth. She has to put it all together and completely nail her program and then she is a contender. But under CoP, her spins and layback are not going to save her if she doesn't land her jumps. They just aren't strong enough. Her consistency, which has always been her strongest point, is not what it used to be. Part of me wonders if she just doesn't have the motivation anymore. Again, I feel somewhat traitorous saying these things, but I am saying what I think.

Kwanford Wife · Mar 16, 2005

here's a thought

Is it possible that we, the fans & in particular the uber Kwan fans (myself included), have not been listening to Michelle & her intentions this year? Is it possible that only the fans are gleeful, surprised, sick, and agast at her placement in the QR?

If you think back to all the "competiting on my terms" comments during a transistional year in the judging, what was she really saying?

She knew that skipping the GP & testing CoP at Worlds was a HUGE risk but did it anyway because she could. How important is a World title to her now? Is it possible that she made a calculated move & is really treating Worlds as a test before the "big show?" Could it be that she's marking her time until Turin? I had this somewhat blastphous thought while reading the comment about thinking too much on the spins & all the tweeking & never seeing the final Bolero this season... This from a person who is a hard core competitor. Doesn't add up. Particularily when you look at how perfect Spartucus is... And CoP friendly. (I think... I was never good at algebra)

One last thing: I wouldn't be surprised if she keeps Bolero for next year. The whole connectedness thing (first world title in 96, last competition is olympics in 06, T&D Bolero, Dean did the choro,) is too tempting for MK, the historian & legend to ignore...

If the above is just the ramblings of a disappointed uberfan, please let me know. But I'm really interested in everyone's thoughts.

Kwanford Wife

childfreegirl · Mar 16, 2005

soogar said:
I think the old system ultimately hurt Michelle. She hasn't had the motivation to perfect her spins and footwork b/c she has been coasting along from victory to victory for years and "playing it safe". I find it ironic how Irina has all of a sudden become the "perfect package" under COP when she had so many imperfections under the 6.0 system. Now the skater who is actually more athletic (more steps, better spins) is going to win verses the skater who just "looks pretty". Quite frankly, MK has never done it for me as a skater anyway and I think that the COP system is going to expose her for what she is : a jumping bean who skates "emotional" crossovers during her programs.

That said, MK is a very consistent skater and her clone, Poykio, did quite well for herself under COP. There is no doubt that if MK hits her jumps, she will be rewarded under COP. However I believe that she can hit her jumps, but Sasha, Irina and Shizuka can pass her by with a mistake b/c their programs are so deep (and count Fumie in as well).

I also think that MK has the athletic prowess to beef up her elements under COP but she will need to commit to this 100% and test out her programs in the GP series. For her sake, the best thing for her would be to NOT get a medal in this year's worlds b/c she is in sore need of a wake up call. I don't think that the reality of the scoring system has fully dawned on her yet and she is quite stubborn in remaining the same MK. It was ridiculous how last year she actually received 2 first place ordinals in the LP over a brilliant Shizuka. If that's not holding up and scoring according to reputation, I don't know what is.

Lesser skaters have seized upon the opportunity to adapt to COP and there is no doubt that MK has the ability to do this as well.

I think MK should at least go back to Lori Nichol... she did an outstanding job with T&M and Fumie.

ITA with that whole post! I couldn't have said it better. :rock:

Mathman · Mar 16, 2005

Oh, I don't know. We are doing an awful lot of analyzing about the CoP, Michelle doing or not doing the Grand Prix, and how many tenths of a point she might get for an extra twizzle.

But the fact of the matter is that she is in seventh place not for any of those reasons, but because she skated like crap.

MM

VIETgrlTerifa · Mar 16, 2005

Mathman said:
Oh, I don't know. We are doing an awful lot of analyzing about the CoP, Michelle doing or not doing the Grand Prix, and how many tenths of a point she might get for an extra twizzle.

But the fact of the matter is that she is in seventh place not for any of those reasons, but because she skated like crap.

MM

Word!

Kwanford Wife · Mar 16, 2005

Mathman said:
Oh, I don't know. We are doing an awful lot of analyzing about the CoP, Michelle doing or not doing the Grand Prix, and how many tenths of a point she might get for an extra twizzle.

But the fact of the matter is that she is in seventh place not for any of those reasons, but because she skated like crap.

MM

LMAO!!!!! Mathman you ARE the man! You are absolutly correct & I stand in awe of your logical reasoning... Thank you for snapping this whole MK franic panic I've been in all day... :rofl:

I shall stop fretting & get ready for Survivour.

Kwanford Wife

soogar · Mar 16, 2005

Mathman said:
Oh, I don't know. We are doing an awful lot of analyzing about the CoP, Michelle doing or not doing the Grand Prix, and how many tenths of a point she might get for an extra twizzle.

But the fact of the matter is that she is in seventh place not for any of those reasons, but because she skated like crap.

MM

Well from the looks of the things, the other skaters have been skating crap as well. However COP has shown that if you play by the rules, crap can result in a Euros gold (and possibly even a worlds gold as well).

millie · Mar 16, 2005

soogar said:
Well from the looks of the things, the other skaters have been skating crap as well. However COP has shown that if you play by the rules, crap can result in a Euros gold (and possibly even a worlds gold as well).

Dream on soogar!!!and moon is made out of green cheese!! :rofl:

Hikaru · Mar 16, 2005

Mathman said:
About Michelle doing the Grand Prix next year, the other side of the coin that she has to weigh is the wear and tear on her body. It seems strange to me (a non-skater) that once you get out of your teens, doing a competition once a month or so seems to totally whip your butt. But look at the men -- everybody is hobbling along with some kind of injury.

Geez, well I'm sorry if I sound rude, but she's gonna have to suck it up and do the GP! She only needs to do two events, maybe the final. Slutskaya did it and she's still ill, so Michelle could do it as well, unless she has an injury or something we know nothing about. I don't want to seem rude, and I respect Michelle, but if she really wants to make sure that her programs will work with CoP, I hope she toys the idea of doing the GP next season.

That said, I cannot help but to agree to some extend with kwanford wife that maybe, just maybe, Michelle is not going for the title this year, and that she's just trying the CoP to know it before next season. On the other hand, maybe this is not what Michelle is doing, an as MM said, she just skated like crap and that's why she's where she is after QR. It is really tempting to think that Michelle is just pulling our legs here and that she has a master plan for next year.

brad640 · Mar 16, 2005

soogar said:
Well from the looks of the things, the other skaters have been skating crap as well. However COP has shown that if you play by the rules, crap can result in a Euros gold (and possibly even a worlds gold as well).

I think you're right. For whatever reason, the gold medal is already engraved with Irina's name. At least Michelle looked great in her new costume. I guess her gold costume from nationals was not 'Torville and Dean' enough.

JonnyCoop · Mar 17, 2005

dwiggin3 said:
But, I think we all agree that MK has always done things the unconventional way and perhaps that has been what has allowed her to stay in the sport so long. If say, Slute or Cohen tried to debute COP at Worlds, I think we'd all be skeptic. However, I think that Kwan has shown us that if there ever was a skater that could come from behind or go about things in an unconventional manner and still come out on top its her.

Oh, you mean stuff like dumping her coach and (more importantly) longtime choreographer during an Olympic season, then going to the Olys coachless with recycled programs? Yeah, she sure came out on top of that situation BRILLIANTLY.......

I think the main thing that's coming back to bite Kwan in the butt now is the fact has less to do with lack of COP experience (tho that ain't helping), but the fact that she hasn't been pushed on a NATIONAL level that much. (Given the fact that her seasons seem to begin with them anymore, after all...) Her main (and really only) competition since SLC has been Cohen, and Cohen has that little splatting problem. It's a shame that Sarah wasn't able to stick around and maintain the level she skated at the Olys -- I think a strong solid challenge like that would have spurred Kwan on to up the ante a bit. Instead, she's been in a position to be able to coast along doing her same old thing (only not nearly as well as it used to be, IMO) with no serious challengers -- till she shows up at Worlds. The technical abilities of these ladies has gotten a lot stronger over the last couple of years; she can't just rely on her artistry anymore -- especially given the fact that that isn't what it used to be, either.

apache88 · Mar 17, 2005

Mathman said:
Oh, I don't know. We are doing an awful lot of analyzing about the CoP, Michelle doing or not doing the Grand Prix, and how many tenths of a point she might get for an extra twizzle.

But the fact of the matter is that she is in seventh place not for any of those reasons, but because she skated like crap.

MM

Totally agreed. If Michelle had skated even like she had at 2005 Nats and got 7th place, then it would be terrifying especially for one of the all time greatest skaters. But no, she gave, according to most experts including Frank Caroll (quoted in one report), her worst performance in a major competition in the last 10 years! Even her meltdown at 1997 Nats was not that bad relatively speaking.

So, I strongly believe that's not the end of Michelle under the COP. By next season she should be completely ready. Now come to think of it, I find it amazing that it took 10 years for Michelle to skate a crap like that. A testament to how great she was.

The only mistake that she made is she debuted her COP LP at of all competitions, a major one like worlds. I think she was over-confident, it's a good wake up call. She definitely is sucking it all up. She knows exactly this is the price to pay or her plans, no whining.

jesslily · Mar 17, 2005

It does not look like that Michelle is really eager to go on for next Olympics. For the past two years she just played by year or by day and had nor definite plan. With two coach changes her skating abilily has been getting less and less each year, but somehow she did not very bad for the past two years. It also seems she and her coach did not do anything to keep up with the new judging system, they rather waited until world and just show up to compete. On the other hand Sasha and Irena along with many other world competitiors did add many tricks to show their total packages, spin positions, sprals, fast foot work, etc. Frankly speaking Michelle indeed need to slim down a little. The extra few ponds could make you look a lot less artistic.

Mathman · Mar 17, 2005

jesslily said:
Frankly speaking Michelle indeed need to slim down a little. The extra few ponds could make you look a lot less artistic.

I think she did slim down since U.S. nationals. She looked to be at her absolute peak of beauty in both her new dark blue costume and in her black warm-up outfit.

OT -- A news release just announced that Michelle was named corporate spokesperson for the California-based East West Bank. Michelle says:

"I see in East West Bank the same values that I cherish and have been taught by my own family. I come from a Chinese-American family. My parents arrived here with nothing, and through hard work and determination they made a life for themselves. They taught me the importance of setting goals, staying focused and working to be the very best. East West Bank has followed the same path to success and is an institution I respect and am proud to represent."

Mathman

PS. According to the financial news, East West shares closed down 6 cents on Tuesday. I guess they should have gone with Sasha.

Linny · Mar 17, 2005

Skating without Injury

MK is skating without injury. In this worlds, THAT means a lot.
Linny

Kwanford Wife · Mar 17, 2005

jesslily said:
It does not look like that Michelle is really eager to go on for next Olympics. For the past two years she just played by year or by day and had nor definite plan. With two coach changes her skating abilily has been getting less and less each year, but somehow she did not very bad for the past two years. It also seems she and her coach did not do anything to keep up with the new judging system, they rather waited until world and just show up to compete. On the other hand Sasha and Irena along with many other world competitiors did add many tricks to show their total packages, spin positions, sprals, fast foot work, etc. Frankly speaking Michelle indeed need to slim down a little. The extra few ponds could make you look a lot less artistic.

Frankly speaking, you sound very silly... :disapp:

KW

Kwantessence · Mar 17, 2005

soogar said:
Well from the looks of the things, the other skaters have been skating crap as well. However COP has shown that if you play by the rules, crap can result in a Euros gold (and possibly even a worlds gold as well).

childfreegirl · Mar 17, 2005

Mathman said:
PS. According to the financial news, East West shares closed down 6 cents on Tuesday. I guess they should have gone with Sasha.

I like your sense of humor, MM.

apache88 · Mar 17, 2005

jesslily said:
It does not look like that Michelle is really eager to go on for next Olympics. For the past two years she just played by year or by day and had nor definite plan. With two coach changes her skating abilily has been getting less and less each year, but somehow she did not very bad for the past two years. It also seems she and her coach did not do anything to keep up with the new judging system, they rather waited until world and just show up to compete. On the other hand Sasha and Irena along with many other world competitiors did add many tricks to show their total packages, spin positions, sprals, fast foot work, etc. Frankly speaking Michelle indeed need to slim down a little. The extra few ponds could make you look a lot less artistic.

I see your points but I disagree. I think Michelle is eager to try for the Oly gold again but just wants to keep it under low proile, hence the take-it-day-by-day statement she always gives. To me it's perfectly ok to go for the gold again, to keep trying to achieve your ultimate goal. If you still fail eventually, well, accept it just isn't meant to be. I just can't understand why some just find it terrible for her to continue to go for the Oly gold. I personally dislike quitters.

Lastly, I think Michelle's body is just fine, I'm not offended by your remark at all though.

JonnyCoop · Mar 17, 2005

jesslily said:
Frankly speaking Michelle indeed need to slim down a little. The extra few ponds could make you look a lot less artistic.

Maybe she could slim down to Qing Pang size and then we can all talk about how thin she looks..... Her "looking a lot less artistic" hardly has anything to do with her weight, it has to do with the fact that she just doesn't have an especially interesting program this season.

Article re Ladies QR

kyla2

Kwanford Wife

childfreegirl

Mathman

VIETgrlTerifa

Kwanford Wife

soogar

millie

Hikaru

brad640

JonnyCoop

apache88

jesslily

Mathman

Linny

Kwanford Wife

Kwantessence

childfreegirl

apache88

JonnyCoop

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