Men Free Skate - What were the judges thinking???

Just my thoughts on the Men's Free Skate ...

... there is no question that Stephane Lambiel is the rightful champion ... he skated superbly through all three parts of the competition.

But what's up with the rest??? I mean, I can just get over Jeff Buttle winning silver (though he shouldn't have been ahead of Weir) ... but Lysacek with the bronze? Are you kidding me?`

I was watching the competition live in TV with two friends who couldn't understand this either.
The German commentators were completely outraged at the final result!!!

How could Johnny Weir not be on the podium? How could anyone prefer Evan Lysacek's program to that of Johnny who is so much stronger both in the technical elements and program components?

I have been watching figure skating for many years, and have been to many competitions, but this World Championship is leaving a bitter aftertaste.

There were several other decisions that apparently no one can understand but not giving Johnny Weir the Bronze medal is unforgivable.

Vanessa

Dude, WHAT ABOUT LI!!!!!!

Man , I'm so tired of the Li robbing. It's not as if Yevgeny or Brian do *much* harder spins that Li but they are rewarded for their jumps. This is not the case with Li. This is a bunch of bulls!t.

So where are all the haters who complained about Irina winning euros over girls who completed more jumps? I guess when Buttle and Lysacyk get into the medals it's okay b/c no one cares about Li.

I completely agree. I watched them all skate and I just can't understand it. I can't help but think that if Weir would have been in the final group to skate that he would have had a much higher score. It's just not right or fair.

Don't you just love it! All along we thought it was the scoring system, but it looks like it was the judges after all! Congrats to Evan! 42

I'm thrilled for all three podium finishers. Congrats Stephane (WORLD CHAMP!), Jeff & Evan!

As for Johnny...maybe his style is a tad too 'lightweight' (not to mention 'effeminate') for certain judges? I'm not saying it's fair. But just throwing that one out there for everyone to ponder. Evan's overall skating style might be seen as more manly, yet artistic. Jeff, too, balances the masculine & the feminine a bit better than does Johnny.

Sorry - I'm just trying to make sense of this.

I need to watch all of this tonight on TV. I'm just going by everyone's comments & my past viewings of all these guys.

soogar said:

Dude, WHAT ABOUT LI!!!!!!

Man , I'm so tired of the Li robbing. It's not as if Yevgeny or Brian do *much* harder spins that Li but they are rewarded for their jumps. This is not the case with Li. This is a bunch of bulls!t.

So where are all the haters who complained about Irina winning euros over girls who completed more jumps? I guess when Buttle and Lysacyk get into the medals it's okay b/c no one cares about Li.

Click to expand...

Actually, according to Rosaleen's reports, Buttle landed more jumps than Li. Buttle also has extremely COP friendly choreography, excellent spins etc. Lysacek also completed the same (possibly one more) number of jumps as Li. So this wasn't about jumps. I'd say Li has to look at his overall package.

On another topic, I am puzzled by Weir's FS placement, if not his overall placement, if Rosaleen's reports are correct. If they are, it sounds like he had one of the better freeskates, but only placed 6th. Hmmmm. I really like his skating and if he completed the list of jumps it's reported he did, I think he should have placed higher in this portion of the competition. As for overall placement, I have a hard time getting too worked up - there are three phases, all of which count. He didn't do so well in two of them. To say he should hands-down be on the podium seems a bit of a stretch to me.

Could he have cheated a few of his jumps where he had tight landings?

Perhaps he was also skating a little slower or more tentatively...?

It was just a complete splatfest from the first skater on.
Weir AND Sandhu were robbed in the free, deserved hands down first and second place in no particular order.

The rest was just painfull to watch, except for Van Der Perren who at least stayed nearly on his two feet.

What a disapointing night despite Stéphane's title (which I am sooo sooo glad he got !)

indiaskye1 said:

Just my thoughts on the Men's Free Skate ...

... there is no question that Stephane Lambiel is the rightful champion ... he skated superbly through all three parts of the competition.

But what's up with the rest??? I mean, I can just get over Jeff Buttle winning silver (though he shouldn't have been ahead of Weir) ... but Lysacek with the bronze? Are you kidding me?`

I was watching the competition live in TV with two friends who couldn't understand this either.
The German commentators were completely outraged at the final result!!!

How could Johnny Weir not be on the podium? How could anyone prefer Evan Lysacek's program to that of Johnny who is so much stronger both in the technical elements and program components?

I have been watching figure skating for many years, and have been to many competitions, but this World Championship is leaving a bitter aftertaste.

There were several other decisions that apparently no one can understand but not giving Johnny Weir the Bronze medal is unforgivable.

Vanessa

Click to expand...

I beleive Johnny Weir fell in the short program - Jeff did not - he skated a near perfect program - big difference.

Wow, what a ride.....thoughts...

Weir: Still Prould of him...he skated injured and still acquitted himself as one of the best in the world.

Evan: Never forget the power of judges and coaches. Not that Evan isn't a great skater, let's just say that I feel FC no longer has the same problem he did with Linda F at her Olypics. Still, he was second in the Junior Worlds two or three times behind Andrei GRIAZEV and now wins a world medal at his first Senior Worlds. Whatever way he got it, way to go! Between he and JW, the US has 3 Olympic spots.

Tim: Had a rough way to go, after all of last year's promblems and this year's upheavals, I think he did really well. Sort of like last years Irina, just glad to see him out there and hanging in.

Kevin V d P: almost on the edge of breaking through, If uninjured he could be next year's dark horse for a medal at Olympics.

Jeff Buttle: I think the most balance of athletic and artistic abilty in one skater among the men skating today. If he gets a quad, watch out BIG TIME.

Stephane: Great big American hugs for pulling it all out when it counted. Many of us have waited for you to emerge from the shadows into greatness. If he continues to skate like that, I think Plushy may have somehting serious to worry about next Olys.

By the way, unless there is some special ruling, does his withdrawal and the placement of the other Russian men really mean that there will only be one spot for the guy's on Team Russia?

The Russian men barely qualified 2 men for the games (by the hair of their teeth).

Johnny's Technical marks...

.....were very, very, very low. Only 60.-- some points, or well into 15th place technically. He must not have been given credit for the jumps Rosaleen listed. His PCS were higher, near 4th place.

This is weird! We have a judges reports and Rosaleen. We will have to wait and see what happened for ourselves.

According to the CBC broadcast tonight Johnny Weir only did 7 jumping passes out of a possible 8. As well he really slowed down towards the end.

I think if he had put in another jumping pass he would have certainly been in for the bronze and second in the long program...a critical error on his and/or the coaches part.

John - he probably had an 8 jump program but due to his injury he could only do 7. So lets not get too hard on his jumps. I have seen him skate better. He seems nervous and a bit tight. Still a very good skate!

Jeff - you know something. The fact that he does not have a quad yet can compete against the best in the world says alot about his 2nd MARK. He has invested heavily in the spins, choreography and interpretation. I think the only other skater to do the same is Lambiel. These two are mileeeesss ahead of others in terms of programs. And no....it is not a gift...In fact, the reason why he won silver is because

1. he was consistent from the QR thru the SP to the LP and
the points earned in the SP and LP carried through to his LP.
3. Joubert fell apart and Pluschenko withdrew.

If 3 and 4 did not happen and he fell 2 times in the LP, he would have been 3rd. Like the Swedish commentators said, Jeff fell but he had what it takes to medal.

Lambiel - 2nd Mark and QUAD!!! Smart one....
Is it the choreography or did he do 2 single jumps!. :scratch:
The LP was good but not as great as his SP. Still, I shouldn't criticize him...he delivered it in the QR!

Eman - The 1st half was EXCELLENT then he started thinking too much....and you all know what happens when Eman thinks! *sigh* One day he will get his act together...one day :frown2: ... :yes: one day

Evan - something is right about this guy when I like his program over D/L OD. Great job Evan. Welcome...You've arrived! yay


Edited to add....

Another point about Jeff and Lambiel is that even if they fall, they have the programs..not just programs but great programs. It sure helps to have a strong backbone so to speak. You never know when the jumps will fail you. Brian - are you there?

Craziness

I just got home in time to see Yvegeny withdrawing and then seeing the rest of the skaters skate starting with Weir. Let me just start by saying that I do agree that Stefan deserved the gold even though he did 2 non jumps and I think didn't do a triple axle either *correct me if I'm wrong on that.* Did Stefan deserve a score that was 20 points higher than Buttle? I don't quite think so even though his program was superior he still did 2 non jumps and no axle. Terry Gannon also mentioned that his free skate score was the highest ever for the new COP system which sounds crazy to me if that's a true statement considering....again....he did TWO non jumps.

On to the rest, I really can't believe Buttle *was given* silver with that lackluster program that was interesting in the beginning but totally blew in the 2nd half of it and not to mention this dude FELL on 2 of his jumps yet he had a 60+ score for technical elements. I thought that was ridiculous. Joubert deserved what he got and I suggest he get a new choreographer and coach so they can pick better music for him to skate too and to veto the ridiculous outfits he's been wearing the last few seasons. Lysacek did a respectable program imo and if comparing between his program vs Buttle's I'd have to say he should have earned the Silver. Now if you throw Weir into the mix, I'd say Buttle not medal at all even though Weir did come across very tentative on his jumps after his 3/3 and seemed very slow and fatigued. Note his last spin combination, it was the weakest I've ever seen him perform.

In conclusion, I hope the ladies event isn't as poor and contentious as the mens event turned out to be.

My impressions:
Li was robbed big time (and the only bad spin he had was that Klimkin rip off spin where he travelled all over.. all of his other spins were good)
I liked Stephane Lambiel better last year. This King Arthur program looks hastily choreographed and he could do a whole lot better than this.
Buttle wasn't all that (and I normally like him).
Evan really reminds me of Ilia Kulik both in body type and the jumps. It's no wonder that they both shared the same coach (Evan was coached by Kundravstiev(sp?) before going to Carroll).

Lindemann will make a comeback for the Olympics. He is not a fluke.

Klimkin would have done really well here even with his normal mistakes.

Plush really is two notches above everyone else. The quality of the men's skating really goes down when he's not there. Plush's crappy (for him) SP was skated with more conviction and fire than any of these guys can muster.

soogar said:

My impressions:
Li was robbed big time (and the only bad spin he had was that Klimkin rip off spin where he travelled all over.. all of his other spins were good)
I liked Stephane Lambiel better last year. This King Arthur program looks hastily choreographed and he could do a whole lot better than this.
Buttle wasn't all that (and I normally like him).
Evan really reminds me of Ilia Kulik both in body type and the jumps. It's no wonder that they both shared the same coach (Evan was coached by Kundravstiev(sp?) before going to Carroll).

Lindemann will make a comeback for the Olympics. He is not a fluke.

Klimkin would have done really well here even with his normal mistakes.

Plush really is two notches above everyone else. The quality of the men's skating really goes down when he's not there. Plush's crappy (for him) SP was skated with more conviction and fire than any of these guys can muster.

Click to expand...

Li always seems to be kept down, even when he jumps and spins well. He has always had his own sense of strength and presentation and ideas, and he presents them often quite confidently. I think he is robbed on the PCS in many respects, and he has been labeled a bad spinner, but he is OK. His footwork is also good. I agree with you he is under appreciated, but in the past, his programs are slightly dull by the end of them. I like him better in the SP, where he is definitely under marked.

Lambiel may be wonderful, and a world champion now, but he will not win the Olympics with a skate like that. He had a single axel, double lutz and single flip. I don't believe he did a triple loop, either. Everything else was great, and he is still so young at 19.

Buttle seems to receive high "SS" marks despite programs not showing high jumping ability. He does a 3 axel, but misses it often and has that wild entrance. He does a triple-triple, but the second triple is a cheated "toe-axel" jump instead of a toe loop, so he doesn't deserve full credit. Jumping IS part of "SS", but mistakes are overlooked if the judges want to do it. "PF" should also suffer with falls and marks taken off or not awarded fully. He does deserve some very high PCS, but not all of them for that skate. He is lucky to have come in second, I believe.

Weir wasn't at his best and got creamed on his spins, and the lack of one jump, in his TCS. Only 60.-- or so points is very low. His performance wasn't his best, and his marks for that were fair. He simply needs to be at his best to do much better, and at least he improved on last year's finish of 5th.

Lysacek was lucky this time as well. No quad and a lack of maturity and sophistication in the program, but he still medalled without being in the top 3 in any portion of the FS past the QR. Good for him. He also had the benefit from the Joubert melt down and Plushenko withdrawl, as well as Johnny's being below the weather, and Lindemann having a nuclear melt down in the SP.

Overall marks for this Championships (A-best, F-worst): D

stupidregistration said:

Terry Gannon also mentioned that his free skate score was the highest ever for the new COP system which sounds crazy to me if that's a true statement considering....again....he did TWO non jumps.

Click to expand...

not his free skate but his overall total is the new World record, but you have to realize that Worlds had a QR that added 30 points more.

I just hope Plush is healthy next season and Lambiel keeps his consistency and we will have a wonderful Oly season.