Sequins and Manhood in the USA

Re: Sequins and Manhood in the USA

I agree it is a shame that young buys are not encouraged to figure skate because it is not manly and that they are encouraged to play hockey. I think that figure skating is just as hard and manly as any other sport because it still requires training and practice and all that other stuff. I wish that (male) athletes would get the same respect as they do in Russia and other countries.

Re: Sequins and Manhood in the USA

I love it when boys figure skate. *faintALEXEIBRIANDAVIDPELLETIERJOHNZIMMERMANfaint* But some guys need not to wear sparkly shirts *coughMICHAELWEISScoughcoughcough*

Re: Sequins and Manhood in the USA

if you want to be a North American male figure skater I suggest you move to Canada... America sucks when it comes to stereotyping figure skating. I don't think there's one person I know(other than my dad) here in Kenai that likes figure skating... sure there are girls who skate... but one of the most popular girls in my school who skates (and says she knows EVERYTHING ) even tells me I'm stupid to think Scott Hamilton, Mike Weiss(boy she knows tons more than me :lol: ), and EVERY American male skater is gay. Because, and I quote, "They just can't be straight and want to be in a sport that is strictly for gay men." ...

it's just the american way "play hockey or we'll label you into being something you aren't"

the *manly* bug that is in most Americans(male and female) just discourages a lot of young boys... case in point my foster brother(who went back to the same situation he was in before we got him unfortunately) "wrote" a report(he was in kindergarden so basically he made a collage and learned a bit from asking me) on Kurt Browning[His idol]... HIS TEACHER called my mother afterwards and said while he did do well she wanted mom to know that she did not appreciate him teaching the class about gay lifestyles... my mother then informed the teacher that skating it not a gay lifestyle for many men, and then she sent me down to get my brother(the school's 3 doors down from us) and the teacher and I had a lengthly discussion where I named a few dozen straight men in skating. She told me that she didn't care, that skating IS a gay sport and I'd just have to get over it... that's when my foster brother thru one of his tantrums and told her that he wasn't coming back until she started liking Kurt. She didn't apologise(I still can't stand her ) and he did have to go back


I know I sound negative towards the "alternative lifestyle" I didn't mean to. It's just not accepted by many people(If you want to discuss anything about this post further please email me: [email protected])

Re: Sequins and Manhood in the USA

Maybe I'm off on the wrong tangent here, but what's wrong with having a sport (men's figure skating) in which gay men are strongly represented, even to the point of dominating the sport? In the U.S., professional basketball is dominated by black players, but nobody seems to care much one way or the other. It doesn't affect the popularity of basketball as a spectator sport, among either black or white audiences. Both white boys and black boys play ball in school and aspire to be the next Michael Jordan.

I hope I'm not guilty of stereotyping, but it seems incontestable that gay men are heavily represented in many artistic fields of endeavor. What's so bad about that?

Mathman

PS. HamiltonBrowningFan -- You have had so many interesting experiences so far! You ought to write your autobiography.

Re: Sequins and Manhood in the USA

Always eager for my husband's take on the subject, I asked his opinion on men's skating. Except for Stojko and Yagudin, he said that he thinks that most men do have "girlish" movements but that doesn't take away from his love of watching skating. By the way, he can't stand football or hockey or baseball (loves soccer and likes basketball) and never misses watching a skating competition with me (he predicted Sarah would win Oly gold)! Am I lucky, or what? (BTW, he was in the Air Force.)

Re: Sequins and Manhood in the USA

Consider yourself lucky, RealtorGal. I guess that's a redundant comment. My husband also served in the Navy. He retired two years ago. His attitude to guys figure skating is one of "He's able to do something that I can't do." My husband doesn't really get into figure skating, or any other sport for that matter. This is rather ironic because while growing up, I was criticized for liking sports and being a girl. I was told that "Boys don't like girls who like sports." I guess my marriage proved all those critics wrong!!

Re: Sequins and Manhood in the USA

I am a 56 year old male figure skater who has some of his single jumps down. In all my adult classes I am the only male, and we all have a great time...

Where I use to work I got teased unmercifully by my much younger male workers who thought I must be gay...eventhough I have been married for over 25 years. Where I work now, I do not have a problem at all. A couple of my younger coworkers actually play hockey. One day I happened to be on ice just before one of their games. They were amazed that a 56 year old could jump and have such edge control....attitudes sure changed that day...

Re: Sequins and Manhood in the USA

Ya know, I kinda hate it when people make fun of guys just cuz they figure skate. How bout seeing THEM do a triple Salchow and LAND ON ICE??? Boy, I would DEFINITELY laugh when they fall and look stupid!!! :rollin:

I see figure skating as a hard sport. I don't skate myself, but watching these talented skaters do their stuff on ice and make it look so easy and smooth is truly amazing.

Plus those footwork... *Alexei *

And those bodies.... *Alexei, David, John Z, Peter T *

Sequins and manhood in the USA

Part of it is the stereotype that all gay men are flaming queens,combined with the misconception that all figure skating is balletic.Apparently no-one ever thinks of the Rock Hudsons,the Robert Reeds(Mike Brady on The Brady Bunch),the Dick Sargents(the second Darren on Bewitched) or the Roy Cohns(Senator Joe McCarthy's sidekick)when they think of gay men,it's always the Freddie Mercurys or Rudy Galindo.As far as skating goes,ballet is just one element of skating;there's also jazz,flemenco,rock & roll,avante garde,there's even humor.But the ignorant are..well..just plain ignorant.
Also,has anyone ever considered the possibility that,just as a gay man might go into figure-skating as a way to express himself,another might go into the so-called macho sports as a way to repress himself?That's what happenned to football player Dave (Steve?) Kopay,the football field and locker room where the perfect hiding place for him,he could play and no one would be the wiser.
Another assumption is that hockey,football,basketball,etc.,are macho because of the physical challenge of men busting heads with each other.Well skaters face a physical challenge,just look at the injuries list.It may not be other skaters he's challenging on the same ice surface,but he does have to work against the elements.On the other hand,does anyone know of a man getting injured for playing pool?

Re: Sequins and Manhood in the USA

At the beginning of the year, I was at my spins event at a competition and in the group before me, there was a boy that did a beilman. It was really cool, and everyone clapped and cheered a LOT. It was pretty impressive, as he was probably the only one period who did a beilman in that group.

Re: Sequins and Manhood in the USA

At my rink there are only four guy skaters in PreJuv+. They're so sweet and nice (to me, at least) but they're definately not gay. They're not half bad because one of them went to the North American challenge I think it was, and one of them made it to Jr. Nationals in singles and in pairs. I know that one of them at least takes private ballet lessons.

Re: Sequins and Manhood in the USA

When I was younger, my brothers and other boys in the neighborhood - when they saw Russian men skating in the Olympics in crazy costumes or to a flamboyant theme they would say something like "yea, but they're Russian, so its OK" but the American male skaters would be branded Gay.

I don't know if this is still the case, as in those days it was believed with the USSR that the Soviet men had no choice in the matter and were chosen to be skaters and were made to skate and therefore, it wasn't their fault. The American male on the other hand, made his own choice to skate and naturally must be gay or otherwise he'd be playing football.

So I don't know if now they are all still perceived as Gay or what. I think it could be a hinderance to a straight male who wanted to skate but feared being labeled gay or even a gay male who feared outing himself prematurely by skating. I do think it is a major issue for the men in the west who want to skate. I think it is becoming more acceptable for men to be in the sport of skating and not be branded automatically gay and for people to be gay in general is becoming more accepted.

Stratovariouses and manhood in Winnepeg

I just started reading a biography of The Guess Who (by John Einarson,who later collaberated with the rock icon on his autobiograhpy "Taking Care Of Business",so it must be accurate),where Randy Bachman started out playing violin,but eventually gave it up because he was tired of being called a sissy.What gives with people?Who knows how many boys had to give up skating because of the taunting?

Re: Stratovariouses and manhood in Winnepeg

it is the same with music -- I took piano lessons for years and don't remember seeing many boys at the recitals, it was usually about 95% girls. A boy in my class who played an instrument and took dance lessons (traditional ethnic dance) was teased a little bit - nobody really thought he was gay and thought it was his parents making him do the classes so they let him off easy, plus he was fortunately well liked. Most wouldn't be able to or wouldn't want to put up with the teasing though.

Sequins

A fabulous exploration of this very subject was in a film called Billy something that did well in theatres last year. Billy was a kind from a working class family in, I think, Yorkshire? England and he wanted to dance ballet...

If you haven't seen it, you really ought to. It was a fabulous film.

Linny

Re: Sequins

That movie is "Billy Eilliot". I love it.

Re: Sequins

Yes, I think the same mentality we see here is evident in the British Isles and probably Australia where men who dance or skate or play music can sometimes be seen as too feminine.

Billy Elliot

Linny - the film you're thinking of is called Billy Elliot. For those that don't know, it's about a boy from a working class family in Newcastle, England, during the miners' strike of 84, who wants to be a ballet dancer but struggles to be accepted by his family for it. It's a great film. Apparently, following the success of it, the Royal Ballet School, for the first time ever, had more male applicants than female. It'd be great if someone made a good skating version!

Re: Sequins and Manhood in the USA

I don't know about the USA, but I do know definitely here in Canada men who figure skate are thought of as "sissy." They might gain a little more respect if they play hockey - in fact a lot of our male skaters start off playing hockey before they take up figure skating. Kurt Browning for example, played hockey before becoming a figure skater. Thank goodness Kurt didn't let it bother him!! Also Lloyd Eisler and Elvis both play hockey.

We always have a shortage of males in the skating clubs - especially for partnering in ice dance - so yes, there is definitely a "stigma" here for male skaters to over come.

Ladskater

Sequins and Manhood in the USA

I grew up in the theatre and also studied dance extensively. I have met many "straight acting" men who turned out to be gay or bi. And many others who seemed to be gay (effeminate?) and turned out to be straight. Unless someone discloses his sexual orientation to me, I don't assume anything. Some people mistakenly think that, as one previous poster put it, "real men" are determined by behavior when they are actually determined by fact - what one is compelled to do in bed and with whom. We are talking about a discomfort with a certain manner of behavior in men. In the end, it shouldn't matter one way or the other. What should matter in dance or figure skating, or any performance art or sport, is how good one is at it. And if one advances the art or sport. I do understand that some people cannot stomach a man who does not act masculine, but I maintain that that is a matter of social conditioning.