Ladies - Free Program - Comments | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Ladies - Free Program - Comments

ChiSk8Fan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
2005 Worlds in Moscow

Overall, the only two events with complex interest in these championships with a terrific overall quality of skating were the Ice Dance and Ladies events. The other events were full of injuries to top skaters, circumstance and poor performances. But, there is a lot to speculate about in the overall picture of events leading to the Olympic Games next year.

Ladies Event:
1. Michelle Kwan: It can be speculated that Michelle has only stayed in the eligible ranks for this year and next year only to have to the opportunity to compete for Gold. This next time, she will definitely be the underdog, something different from the past 2 Olympic Games. She was surprised by winning in 2003, after much coersion to stay eligible. Last year, she did just enough to stay competitive and a stride behind the best jumpers and spinners. This year, the lack of competition exposure really did hurt her, as she didn't appear comfortable with all her planned choreography, transitions, new spin positions and attempts to speed them up. But, I believe that it seems like Michelle sees these years as like running a marathon. She may fall behind a stride or two by pacing herself, but she wants to peak for the months of January - February, 2006. Michelle typically doesn't skate competitions with falls or doubling many jumps. In this competition, she did all those things and had one bad program and was right up there in terms of her points. I believe that a Michelle with 7 triples, the combination and the choreography she demonstrated with Lori Nichol up til 2001 CAN win, absolutely. BUT, she has to get back to this point. My suggestion - pay Lori Nichol the $20,000.00 fee she charges to do a long program, and then train the heck out of it and compete it a lot next year regardless of results. Then, she can relax at Olympics because she won't win the SP, and she will be the underdog. I think she sees the big picture and can be determined and encouraged.
2. Sasha Cohen looks to have improved since Wagner. Her program wasn't totally front loaded, she did sequences and Level 2 spins, but she did provide us with one Spasha Splat, and the Splasha flutz is horrible. But she fought for all her landings and looked calmer and far less arrogant, and I enjoyed her for the first time in a long while. An Olympic medal is hers if she can just hang in there, and in the GP next start her rivaly up with Michelle. Both girls would benefit. I hope they work on the flutz, and keep her calm and confident, but not arrogant. She will place highly next year, for sure, and develop further as a skater and performer. After the season she has had, this was a great job.
3. Shizuka Arakawa is a prime example of a skater who was not equipped emotionally or intellectually to handle being a championship skater. She is a World Champion, but couldn't adapt to performances as such, training as such and competing as such. Her confidence was completely stripped away by not really being a skater adapted for the spotlight. She seems quiet, reserved and shy, and to be recognized as the best in the world seemed to overwhelm her. I am not surprised that she recognizes the depth of skating in Japan, and that the next year would require a mamouth committment with unsure potential results (she may not even make the Japanese Olympic team) away from home, etc. She just seems tired.
4. Irina Slutskaya has hung in there over the last three years. She seems to be a skater whose career is highlighted by ups and downs, with a succession of comebacks. She was great as a mid-teen, had her puberty phase, came back, has had her illness phase, and has come back again under the new scoring system. I don't believe she is better than she was in 2002 - 2003. Next year, she will have the pressure as World Champion to compete a lot - GP, Nationals, Europeans, GPF, Olympics and Worlds - a total of 7 competitions. She will have to plan extremely carefully and hope for good luck in the health department. She is the favorite for the OGM.
5. The Canadian women, particularly Phaneuf, had a strange Worlds. In the GP and the GPF, Phaneuf had a remarkable transformation in her PCS with marks at Worlds down up to 30% from some of her earlier marks. Rochette, told via marks, placements and the judges that she was reaching the elite level with chances of a medal, got PCS placing her in the top 10 - 12, and not near the top group. I understand that they may have jumped poorly, but others have kept their PCS with jump errors. It seemed strange that they only earned one spot for Rochette next year. Phanuef didn't earn a spot She was so low it was embarrassing---didn't she make the GPF? Her best bet for next year is to try and get to Worlds and do much better.

Next year, there will be a huge amount of pressure on Irina, Sasha and Carolina (home crowd and host country expectations and hopes) and less pressure on Michelle, Miki, Fumie and the others.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, because one thing is clear:

A skating era will be coming to an end next season, a new one to begin.
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
I totally understand where you are coming from!!

Kwanford Wife said:
This is one of those CoP things I can never understand... If she did an extra 3L, it is treated like it never happened but doesn't necessarily count against her? Also, do you get deductions for falls or not?

Another question: I've seen you post that you can't wait to see the official judging sheets ~ if it is determined that there is an error after the competition what happens? Is it just "it sucks to be you!" or is there a review?

Thanks for your help for the CoP challenged...

KW

Probably much like you, I've been an FS fan for many years. I graduated HS in 1976, and was an FS fan long before that if that tells you anything! ;)

Judging has just sucked, if I may say that, for years IMO. So I have high hopes for COP making it a little more objective, even though I think it has a long way to go. All that being said, I took a big interest in COP from it's inception. I am NOT as educated about COP or figure skating elements in general (I'm a fan, not a "do'er") from the start.

After each COP comp last year and this year, you can go back to the ISU results site and get the judges detailed score sheets for each individual skater. I have found it helpful to record events, then have the score sheets in front of me while I watch the skate. I know that sounds like a lot of work, and I'm not suggesting at all that anyone should do that.

Anyway, it looks like the judges detailed score sheets are now starting to come up for this comp. So if you want to check it out, go to the final results and click away on the far right column where ".pdf" files are available. It will answer your question (and mine) about Irina's loops and what counted, and a whole lot more.

Happy Hunting,

DG
 

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Chi.......I like your assessment........

Congrats to ALL the ladies. What a comeback for Irina! Sasha.....two time world medalist gives you solid credibility. Carolina.....I have to wait to see you skate before I can make a judgement, but good job on your first world medal. Michelle......way to hang in there for fourth with a solid short and long....

My main question is.........what happened to the Japanese triple threat we were all warned about? It ended up with "the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming......" Can't wait to see this competition on the telly....... :) 42
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Well one thing is Arakawa won't be here for the Olympics. I think she announced her retirement. She wanted to retire after her world gold but I'm sure she was pushed into staying. I think her lack of interest affected her more than anything.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Kwanford Wife said:
This is one of those CoP things I can never understand... If she did an extra 3L, it is treated like it never happened but doesn't necessarily count against her? Also, do you get deductions for falls or not?
Correct, it would be like it never happened. EXCEPT is still counts toward the jump total. In other words, if a female skater does 3 loops, and then goes on to do 5 more jumps, the last one won't count since it will take her ove 7 jump limit even though the 3d loop did not count.

You still get the overall deduction for the fall. It doesn't matter what you fall on. You fall - you get the deduction.
 

attyfan

Custom Title
Medalist
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
While I agree that Michelle needs to do the GP series next year, I'm not so sure that her missing the podium this year was connected to the omission. First, IMHO, the idea that "if Michelle had done GP, she wouldn't have been so nervous during the QR" is a little tenuous; her lifetime-worst-skate-ever during the QR is connected to her doubling and/or two footing triples that she has been landing consistently and cleanly for years, so I'm not sure that doing the GP would have made a difference. Every time any one else makes a mistake, every one talks about how it can throw off timing in the other elements; couldn't this have been true for Michelle? Her spiral was level 1 in the QR and level 2 in the FS. Second, Kwan defeated in both the SP and the FS a lot of the skaters who were noted as milking the COP, and got plenty of experience in the GP (or 4CCs)-- such as all three of the Japanese ladies, and both Canadians. Not too shabby for someone who has been criticised all season for a program because it was not COP-friendly.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Irina's loops

OK, the detailed scores are up. Irina's 3Lo+2Lo combo counted as 3Lo only.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
I wasn't going to read this section today...but clicked on the edge and was spoiled immediately, so here I am. So that means I haven't seen the comp yet but still look forward to it anyway (should have known better than to tempt fate).

Anyway, from what everyone has said so far, there seems to have been more and better performances compard to the men's yet still some major errors/splatting; and the judging seems more or less fair with the PCS's the main question mark in some cases. And, finally lot's of speculation for what this will mean next year...

I thought that Sasha's silver last year was a major break thruogh for her...even though i couldn't believe she left TT....then all the switching, not training moving made me think she's blowing the momentum from this break through...but turns out she pulled through so good for her! I do hope for her this helps build confidence this time to carry through next year.

Irina....good for her....can't wait to see it, but her high scores (not her wins, just the overall numbers) all season tell me I have tons more to learn about this new judging system...but I'm happy for her and thrilled that she got this victory at home given all that pressure on her.

Carolina...got to see it....her skills impress me but i'm never moved by her skating...but it will make for interesting pre-olympic build up that she is now a favorite.

Sorry about the canadians...would have liked to see both of them higher and have two places next year.

Michelle...i don't know what to say, but i guess i want to say something, hence why i'm writing anything at all. I love the purple dress. But that's neither here nor there. So how about this: she has been the one single skater to bring me to tears over and over again; I love watching her. I don't buy into she can't do CoP, and have been totally willing to NOT comment on her GPF nonparticipation cuz she seems to imply she is building toward Turino...so I say, let's see if that is true. BUT it is troubling to me to see (in qualifying and LP) the mistakes that she made...I wonder what that is about. The reason it is troubling to me is NOT that I think she should be perfect everytime, but that to miss these jump elements with what I perceive as little choreo, few transitions is what worries me. I could be wrong about this; but it seems that everytime I look at Michele's body of work, it really is cross overs cross overs...beautifully done i might add...but what i'm trying to say is that what I really worry about is how she is going to up the ante in that regard, cuz despite her fame for artistry (and again, i do agree she is moving) I'm not sure it is there in the way that CoP seems to demand (correct me if i'm wrong), and add to this that spins aren't her best elements or wow factors, and then add jump problems. Now before anyone screams, the combinations she performed seem good...but again, the pops/falls worry me... No matter what she is a legend...but I guess I'm saying all this cuz I would love for her to be Olympic champion too....(but of course, wouldn't it be great for sasha, irina, carolina, and everyone else too...??? i love and hate competition).
I'll stop now!!!!
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Sory in advance if this is double posted before. My internet server was down for a few hours in the mid of my posting.

Jaana said:
Our commentators thought that some of Michelle´s scores were not deserved at all: technical ones plus choreography and the transitions. She was held up by the judges. I wonder why, because In the same time they held Kostner down in those same scores.

What I heard from Eurosport (British one) was Michelle obviousely out skated Carol in LP. But the score diddn't reflect this claim IMO. One of the specialist from the EuroSport was totally absorbed in the mood of Michelle's skating diddn't even notice what caused her falling on the Sal when he was asked by S/C.

Doggygirl said:
Michelle. At least Bolero Two was light years better than Bolero One. But I think if she wants to be a gold medal contender at the Oly's she has GOT to get to work on some actual choreography. I'm sure she's kicking herself over that 1.00 costly fall.... but at this stage in her career I sort of think medaling or not medaling by such a small margin isn't even the issue for her. If she stays in the game, I'm sure she wants to be a gold contender, not a bronze contender.

DG
I agree, she has to get her action together next year. If she decides to continue competing like she said in her rinkside interview after the LP. I don't think lost the bronz by 0.5 points would be too upset for her as for some of her fans. lol.

While I also agree attfan said that sitting out the GPs has no directly related to the bronz medal or not. Anyhow, she overlooked her competion and field this year. She only studied the 4CC and European tapes, if she is going upagainst Irina she should study the CoR tape, where IS gave the best performance before the worlds. She should know better that against strong field today, you should never be prepared enough. Now she should know what to do for the next year if she chose give a last shot to Olympics, do it full heartly not to be too distracted by other activities....

Lastly ....
Congrat to Irina at least she skated like a champion in the LP.
Congration to Sasha, a well earned straight 2nd silvers at the world.
Congrats to Carol for the first medal at the worlds. She was over marked in LP but under marked in SP, so basically get even for her.

Too bad, for Michelle diddn't make it to the podium in 10 years worlds run. If she chose to stay in, hope she pull herself together. Come back strong next year strong.
 
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STL_Blues_fan

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Kwanford Wife said:
This is one of those CoP things I can never understand... If she did an extra 3L, it is treated like it never happened but doesn't necessarily count against her? Also, do you get deductions for falls or not?

Another question: I've seen you post that you can't wait to see the official judging sheets ~ if it is determined that there is an error after the competition what happens? Is it just "it sucks to be you!" or is there a review?

Thanks for your help for the CoP challenged...

KW


2003 GPF, Plushenko lost to Sandhu only b/c Plushenko did an extra combo which he did not get any points for. I do not believe there is a deduction, points are added up for the required elements, extras are not penalized.

Yana
 

millie

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
in seclusion!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I figured that this thread would be 20 pages long by now. I guess all the so-called uber fans are in seculsion after the perfomances of some skaters at Worlds. :rofl:
 

Hikaru

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 23, 2004
millie said:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I figured that this thread would be 20 pages long by now. I guess all the so-called uber fans are in seculsion after the perfomances of some skaters at Worlds. :rofl:

OR maybe people are off downloading the videos! I swear my computer is going to colapse any minute now. I've been trying to get all the performances from the last group, but man when you go to the link it has already expired!!! right now I'm downloading Kwan and Cohen's program, and I have 49% of Kwan and 55 of Cohen's... If my computer doesn't shut down in the next 5 minutes, it will be a miracle (because the comp is very heated up ^_^U )
 

jan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
After watching the ladies freeskate I think Irina is the deserving winner by far. The scary thing for me is her PCS. There is no way she was more than a full point ahead of a skater such as Michelle Kwan. I fear that these PCS scores need to be reviewed. As well look at the individual differences in the PCS between the judges for the same skater. In some cases a 1.50 difference...out of 10 this is huge. There is too much subjectivity in this area and it needs to be addressed immediately.
 

millie

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Hikaru said:
OR maybe people are off downloading the videos! I swear my computer is going to colapse any minute now. I've been trying to get all the performances from the last group, but man when you go to the link it has already expired!!! right now I'm downloading Kwan and Cohen's program, and I have 49% of Kwan and 55 of Cohen's... If my computer doesn't shut down in the next 5 minutes, it will be a miracle (because the comp is very heated up ^_^U )


I'm waiting for the ladies long program to come on CBC. The dance is on now, ladies is coming on in about an hour(6 oclock ou time). I can't wait to see their performances. Although I know the outcome, I still love watching them. To bad for Joannie and Cynthia but they are still in their prime and there is always next year. I suppose everyone can't win gold, as long as they do their best, that's the main thing. I know that this has been a big let down for some but keep on skating. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
jan said:
After watching the ladies freeskate I think Irina is the deserving winner by far. The scary thing for me is her PCS. There is no way she was more than a full point ahead of a skater such as Michelle Kwan. I fear that these PCS scores need to be reviewed. As well look at the individual differences in the PCS between the judges for the same skater. In some cases a 1.50 difference...out of 10 this is huge. There is too much subjectivity in this area and it needs to be addressed immediately.


Well Irina had more in her program than MK so hence a higher PCS score. Though if the PCS scores were really accurate, Shizuka would have been the number one skater b/c her programs were jam packed.

I'm so disappointed in how things turned out for Shizuka. I feel she is the most talented skater of all the ladies competing and she is truly stunning and magestic on the ice. Everything that an OGM should be. I hope that she reconsiders retiring and trains all out for a year. Now a lot of the pressure will be off of her and she can just go to the Olympics and skate her program.
 

kyla2

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
My Opinon

I couldn't disagree more with those of us who say that not skating in the GP Series didn't matter for Michelle. It sure as h_ _ _l did. Let's take a look at those PCS scores that would most certainly have been higher if she had skated the GP Series for a starter. She would have had the bronze and not 4th place. She also would have been more seasoned and hopefully she would have had those triple-triples firmly under her belt for competition, along with a 3-2-2 for the QR. She wouldn't have been jerry rigging the program after Nationals to make it more CoP friendly while stripping away what little choreography it had. The list goes on. This was a major miscalcualtion by her and those advising her. This business about pacing herself is rubbish. She is only 25, not 45. Irina pushed herself to the limit at age 26, while upgrading her elements, and while sick I might add. She deserves this medal. Sasha deserves her silver for simply withstanding the viciousness all year and fighting back. I am glad she did 3 very good programs. I love Michelle but if she wants to win the OGM she needs to work very hard and maybe forget about touring during the summer. I also agree that she needs to pay Lori Nichols the $20,000 she charges for a first rate CoP choreographed program, which includes a triple-triple, 1 or 2 triple-doubles and a 3-2-2.
 
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Hikaru

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 23, 2004
soogar said:
Well Irina had more in her program than MK so hence a higher PCS score. Though if the PCS scores were really accurate, Shizuka would have been the number one skater b/c her programs were jam packed.

I'm so disappointed in how things turned out for Shizuka. I feel she is the most talented skater of all the ladies competing and she is truly stunning and magestic on the ice. Everything that an OGM should be. I hope that she reconsiders retiring and trains all out for a year. Now a lot of the pressure will be off of her and she can just go to the Olympics and skate her program.


well apparently she is not retiring as for what I read in FSU, so far though I haven't read any articles where she says if she's staying or not. I hope she stays though!

UPDATE: OK, I found a small piece and it doesn't sound as if Shizu-chan is leaving:

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/050319/kyodo/d88u42500.html

Arakawa saw her chances of winning a medal dashed when she failed to complete a triple toe-loop and a triple loop midway through her program. She attributed her failure to a poor mental approach

"I couldn't get ready for this event and it was tough to get myself synched with the atmosphere of this arena," Arakawa said.

"But it's good in the sense that this result made me feel that I don't want to quit skating anytime soon, and I'll prepare myself for the next season," she said.
 
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Hikaru

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 23, 2004
millie said:
I'm waiting for the ladies long program to come on CBC. The dance is on now, ladies is coming on in about an hour(6 oclock ou time). I can't wait to see their performances. Although I know the outcome, I still love watching them. To bad for Joannie and Cynthia but they are still in their prime and there is always next year. I suppose everyone can't win gold, as long as they do their best, that's the main thing. I know that this has been a big let down for some but keep on skating. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


that's right!

as for my downloads, Kwan's just got shut down, and I was like 86% of Cohen's when it shut down too, so now I'm off again trying to download them... not to mention I still have to get Irina's, Caro's, Shizu-chan's and Miki's lol
 
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