Ladies - Free Program - Comments | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Ladies - Free Program - Comments

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Rgirl, interesting analysis.

The most complicated level points in CoP is spin. Even level 1 spins they have different values. some may even higher than some other level 2. So you have to pick what you can do very carefully.

Reading detail protocol, seems to me some of judge obviousely don't know how to use GOE. For example there is one judge give a -1 GOE for 3Lutz/2Toe to Michelle and Irina in short program. That was obsurd, under the CoP definition Irina's 3L/2T might can be count as a comb since she diddn't put foot down, but under 6.0 this is a failed comb.

Michelle has a lot of work to do under this judge system. She diddn't even get higher GOEs. She used to be view as the quality of the skating. Even TT made comments during worlds and before the lady competetion started. That compare Irina is objectively weak at this time compare to her major competetors Michelle. She needs refine her spins and jumps every day. She skates well so far because of her strong will.

The overall outcome for Ladies was right. Michelle burried herself in Qual again. But she knows where she stands in CoP now...

Irina skated a lifetime performance, there is no way anyone would beat her in LP. (she should be beaten in SP by several skaters though). At last she delivered a Championship worth performance and win. She should be extremly happy for herself.

I'm really happy for Sasha though. She skated poorly all season until now, well not really her National performance not that bad either, she finally pull through during the Worlds. Win consective 2 worlds medals.

Carolina improved a lot. Not as 'stif' as last year, besides the jump she's developed some beautyful arm movements, etc. I saw her coming when last worlds she got proped in 5th finish. Happy for her this year's well earned 3rd place finish.

Arakawa was bluntly robbed in PCS score. I love her 'smoothy' skating, hope she continue skating and TT should make some rattles for her skaters.

The CoP has the potential, but the anonymouse judge should go. Some of those judges gave bluntly wrong marks should be ashamed of themselves.

Michelle, I still love her skating as always and the way she handles herself at the lose. She's been competing at the Worlds for 12 (1994-2005) years and on World podium 9 times (1996-2004 and 5 times on top). I know someone may say that Irina, Arakawa, Liashinco, etc. just competed as long. Yes, all of them may compet that long, but not all these years at the same level as Michelle and not EVERY Worlds (may be except Elena L.). I mentioned this just to say may be she is due to a 'burn out' (mentally and physically) or may be it's time to considering retiring if she can't find motivation strong enough to put her 100% effort into the skating....Whatever she chose to do I'm 100% behind her. Just love this girl, and It has been the fun to watch her growing up in the scene of world stage like this in all these years. When she's gone from eligible rink, amature skating would never be the same to me. I may reduce to a casual fan again, just follow some pro if she go pro skating, Olympics and maybe once a year the worlds if I happen to have time during the worlds.

ETA:
Just read Ogre Mage's after the posting. I have to say :agree: Ogre.
 
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tannisming

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
mzheng said:
The overall outcome for Ladies was right. Michelle burried herself in Qual again. But she knows where she stands in CoP now...

Irina skated a lifetime performance, there is no way anyone would beat her in LP. (she should be beaten in SP by several skaters though). At last she delivered a Championship worth performance and win. She should be extremly happy for herself.

I'm really happy for Sasha though. She skated poorly all season until now, well not really her National performance not that bad either, she finally pull through during the Worlds. Win consective 2 worlds medals.

Carolina improved a lot. Not as 'stif' as last year, besides the jump she's developed some beautyful arm movements, etc. I saw her coming when last worlds she got proped in 5th finish. Happy for her this year's well earned 3rd place finish.

Arakawa was bluntly robbed in PCS score. I love her 'smoothy' skating, hope she continue skating and TT should make some rattles for her skaters............................................................................................................Thank You MZ :) . You may be the only Kwan fan in history that got it right.
 
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MFarone

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Country
United-States
I have to agree that Michelle buried herself on this one. The qualifying round was terrible (which she acknowledged). Even though she gave away points under the NJS, that part really wasn't a disaster - she had level 2 footwork, some spins, some spirals. What really kept Michelle off the podium was the jump errors in the qualifying round and free skate. I had read on another board that practices were going well and she looked strong. Did the pressure of putting everything into play at Worlds throw off her timing? Perhaps only Michelle has the answers to what happened. I hope she has not burned out - I look forward to seeing her next season.

In the various interviews I heard Michelle say she was disappointed and that the qualifying round was terrible. I never heard her complain or wail about she didn't have enough time, that complying with COP was unfair. I heard a young woman acknowledge that she needed to study COP more and upgrade her levels. I don't know why people keep saying her team failed. Michelle elected to do it her way - whether we like it or understand it or not. She didn't probably get the results she hoped for, but that was the risk she took. She seems to have accepted the outcome graciously and is thinking about what she needs to do for next season.

Congratulations to Irene on her second World gold.

Maureen
 

Ogre Mage

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Rgirl,

I concur with Mathman. That was a great dissection of the CoP scoring -- it makes everything much more understandable. :) I will get the hang of this new system yet.

The CoP has the potential, but the anonymouse judge should go.
I agree with mzheng. I think the basic framework/idea of CoP is good, but there are lots of problems right now. To some degree this is natural while phasing in a new judging system. But the anonymous judging is a problem which could be fixed quite easily.
 
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Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Mathman said:
Rgirl, that was astonishing. Golden Skate should publish its own skating magazine. (Oh wait, we do: http://www.goldenskate.com/ ) You should write a column for it. :rock:
MM :)
That's nice of you to say, Mathman. But when would I have time to write my Nobel Prize winning pornography? :scratch:

Mzheng,
Thanks for wading through my post.:) You make excellent points, especially about the levels and needing to choose carefully what you do, as well as some judges obviously not knowing how to use the GOE. Or maybe they do and are just using the GOE to get in their biases. I'll have to take a look at the judge who deducted -1 from both Irina and Michelle's 3L/2t and see if a bias showed all the way through his/her judging in favor of Irina.

Hopefully that judge's scores were thrown out. And at least with the COP, we can see where judges either don't know what they're doing or are intentionally scoring with bias.

Thanks, too, to Ogre Mage. Wish the ISU would use your avatar as their new symbol. It would at least be a step in the right direction.

Rgirl
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Ogre Mage said:
I agree with mzheng. I think the basic framework/idea of CoP is good, but there are lots of problems right now. To some degree this is natural while phasing in a new judging system. But the anonymous judging is a problem which could be fixed quite easily.
Exactly.

The anonymous judging can be fix as soon as next competetion. I don't see any technical problem here, may be just a little modifying of the computer programing to display judges name along with their scores (TEC and PCS). If they are truely honest in judge the result of the competetion will not be affected as compare to now.

As far as adjust the scores assign to the elements, some menditory deductions, bonus rewarding for variaties and other merits, etc. these are need time to work out with experts and some inputs from coaches and athletes.
 
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