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Thread: I Agree with Paul Martini About Ice Dance...

  1. #1
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    I Agree with Paul Martini About Ice Dance...

    During the Ice Dance free programs Paul made the comment that some dancers like D&L of Canada have "tasteful" lifts while others have "distateful" lifts. After watching some of the dancers perform, I know what he means. I really did not enjoy many of the programs out there. The only one I really liked was the French couple. As Paul and Bab stated they were the only couple who really danced. Their program kept the lifts tasteful and also included lots of dance steps.

    I hate D&L's program - the American Indian theme - skating in Russia, what were they thinking? How would a European audience and judges get what they were portraying? They should have chosen a Russian theme or Ukranian theme.

    Tracy Wilson says Ice dance teams are slowly beginning to look like pairs teams instead. I agree. Paul also made the comment that with all the elements the ice dancers have to include they are not flowing as smoothly across the ice. They are caught up with performing all these lifts. Please bring back true ice dance the way it used to be!!!

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    Rinkside
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    I believe thd D & L program should more properly be labeled as Native Americans (First Citizens? in Canada?) since I understand that Lauzon's grandmother is Native American living in Canada. I do agree that the timing for the program to perform in Moscow is probably the wrong year. My son-in-law is Navaho, so I know they prefer Native American.

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    english heretic Kateri's Avatar
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    Why a European audience might get D/L's programme:
    a.) we're not all completely culturally ignorant, you know!
    b.) it was a fabulous programme!!

    Regarding ugly lifts, according to Eurosport, they are going to seriously limit lifts with the split position and upside down position next year. Yay!

    kateri.

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    I am french and a bit biased towards D&L but along with Delschoens' they had the most interesting program of all.

    It did remind me a bit of Jungle, only they have better lifts and better interpretation skills. Their lifts not only were difficult but they suited and helped their theme come over.
    These two dance with the other one, and that quality itself is wonderfull when looking at Navka and partner, or the ukrainians or the israelis.

    In terms of pure technique it's true that they are still behind some of those couples, but heck they did progress a LOT since last year and I am sure they will again.

    Muriel Zazoui has done a lot in two years with her two top dance teams. You can see how D&L's work is reflected in D&S's Free Dance this year and the other way round too. Two years ago, D&L couldn't do steps to save their lifes, and DelSchoens had problems relating to the audience. It is no longer the case and that's what is interresting.

    And pay attention to lower ranked team. They're not copying G&G, B&A or N&K. NO they're ripping the canadians and french programs badly. Gregory and Petukhov alone are annoying in that matter, but they are not the only ones. And that's how you entenr the ice dance legacy.

    If the split position is limited, then there is no dance team except those two who will be able to have level 3 lifts

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladskater
    During the Ice Dance free programs Paul made the comment that some dancers like D&L of Canada have "tasteful" lifts while others have "distateful" lifts. After watching some of the dancers perform, I know what he means. I really did not enjoy many of the programs out there. The only one I really liked was the French couple. As Paul and Bab stated they were the only couple who really danced. Their program kept the lifts tasteful and also included lots of dance steps.

    I hate D&L's program - the American Indian theme - skating in Russia, what were they thinking? How would a European audience and judges get what they were portraying? They should have chosen a Russian theme or Ukranian theme.

    Tracy Wilson says Ice dance teams are slowly beginning to look like pairs teams instead. I agree. Paul also made the comment that with all the elements the ice dancers have to include they are not flowing as smoothly across the ice. They are caught up with performing all these lifts. Please bring back true ice dance the way it used to be!!!

    I must disagree with you on a couple of points. One, I adored Dubreuil and Lauzon's free dance this year. My favorite program of theirs by far. And for all those who asked, the politically correct term is First Nations. Anyway, yes, their lifts were, IMO the best of the entire competition - all tasteful, unique and went with the music. I think you can do any theme you like and people will get it if you do it well. Which I think they did. I always find it slightly embarrassing when teams tailor their programs to the country they'll be skating worlds in, particularly if it's not their natural style.

    Also, I enjoyed the Free skates this year more than I have in years. I loved the French team most, really enjoyed Dubreuil and Lauzon, Belbin and Agosto and the Ukrainians. My least favs were the Russians and bottom of the heap, the Bulgarians, who are capable of much better. On the whole, that's a pretty good thumbs up average for me in the dance.

    That said, I do agree to some extent with the criticism that the dance in ice dance has gone missing a little in favour of jamming as much technical content as possible into your programs. And please let's see the end of the crotch shot lifts. I don't care how difficult they are, they're UGLY.

  6. #6
    It's all about Plushenko.
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    Why a European audience might get D/L's programme:
    a.) we're not all completely culturally ignorant, you know!
    b.) it was a fabulous programme!!
    Agreed 100%. Skaters shouldn't be expected to cater to where Worlds or Olympics are held.

  7. #7
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayneKR
    I believe thd D & L program should more properly be labeled as Native Americans (First Citizens? in Canada?) since I understand that Lauzon's grandmother is Native American living in Canada. I do agree that the timing for the program to perform in Moscow is probably the wrong year. My son-in-law is Navaho, so I know they prefer Native American.

    In Canada the natives prefer to be called First Nations. We used to call them Aboriginals - but that term is not politically correct now.

  8. #8
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kateri
    Why a European audience might get D/L's programme:
    a.) we're not all completely culturally ignorant, you know!
    b.) it was a fabulous programme!!

    Regarding ugly lifts, according to Eurosport, they are going to seriously limit lifts with the split position and upside down position next year. Yay!

    kateri.
    Did not mean to imply ignorance on anyone's part - but personally, as much as I love D&L, this program did not do anything for me from the first time I saw it at Canadians. I loved their original dance much better.

    I believe this couple could be great, and are always undermarked for some strange reason. They moved to France to train because they did not want to be in the shadow of Bourne and Kraatz. I think there were a lot of expectations put on them after Bourne and Kraatz retired and as yet, they have come close, but have not quite made it. They are talking of retiring after the Calgary Worlds. I think it is a shame, because they are such a striking couple and excellent dancers. I have followed their career for quite sometime now and always enjoy watching them.

    I am still proud of them for what they accomplished at this Worlds. They would have finished in fifth had they not had the little glitch.

    Thanks D&L.

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    Technically it's already in the rulebook (US) that a lift which puts the lady in an "undignified postition" gets a deduction---but it seems nobody gets that deduction & the rule is ignored. Just like the costume rule which is supposed to penalize for excessive use of illusion fabric.

  10. #10
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by backspin
    Technically it's already in the rulebook (US) that a lift which puts the lady in an "undignified postition" gets a deduction---but it seems nobody gets that deduction & the rule is ignored. Just like the costume rule which is supposed to penalize for excessive use of illusion fabric.
    I nearly spewed coffee on my keyboard, as this was my first "vision" when reading your post.

    I imagine Speedy sitting in a little private office drooling over the pictures of the "undignified positions" like a lecherous old man. Now THAT's why we don't see any deductions for this!!

    DG

  11. #11
    Not the droid you're looking for
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggygirl
    I imagine Speedy sitting in a little private office drooling over the pictures of the "undignified positions" like a lecherous old man. Now THAT's why we don't see any deductions for this!!
    Oh, DG, poke out my eyes!
    We call them "get a room!" lifts. And while we're talking about dignity in lifts, I'd like to say a word in praise of the full-coverage panty.
    IMHO, the full-coverage brief should be MANDATORY in certain disciplines. We can call it the Denkova rule.
    xoxo,
    Rave

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