Terri Shivo | Golden Skate

Terri Shivo

Should the courts intervene to go against Michael Shivo's wishes?

  • Yes, Terri's life should be preserved.

    Votes: 20 33.3%
  • No. Let her husband allow Terri's to die.

    Votes: 40 66.7%

  • Total voters
    60

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
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Jul 28, 2003
Terri Shciavo

Terri Shivo case has been in the news now for a long time. What do you think?
 
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dlkksk8fan

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think the courts should stay out of it. She has been brain dead for 15yrs if she hasn't improved by now I doubt she ever will. I know her family thinks she will improve but where do you draw the line. How long do you keep the feeding tube in her? I know I would not want to live (if you call it that) like that for very long. I say let her rest in peace.
 

STL_Blues_fan

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
ITA. The media has been portraying Michael Shiavo as a monster, but he did everything he could to help Terry out. He took her to best specialists, became a nurse to care for her, but the woman is brain dead. She is not going to get better. If anything, steam cell research which may help to individuals such as Terry is being shut down by the same people who insist on keeping her in a veg state. I can't blame her husband for having a family either..it's been a long time, why should he deny deprive himself of children if wants them?

I would not want to be kept alive artificially. It's better to die in dignity.

Yana
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
*important Message*

Take the time to develop a Will or (better IMO) a Trust for yourself or your immediate family. Clearly articulate your wishes for yourself in your Will / Trust should you ever end up in Terri's position. Hearing about this situation several years ago, and thinking about the PAIN this has caused Terri's husband, family and everyone around her, my hubby and I have clearly articulated our wishes legally.

That's one thing we can all do to avoid this kind of heart break in our own families.

That being said, I think the federal government getting involved is tragic. Just the red tape involved means this is likely to go on and on, when it's already gone on and on. What a horrible and painful thing for this family. If Terri's own wishes had been made legally clear, (no fault to her) some of this could be avoided. So the lesson for all of us is...let's make our own wishes in this area legally clear while we are able to.

DG
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Persistent vegetative state does not equal brain dead. Her brain stem is intact. I think this federal judge may walk a slow code, take his sweet time in his decision, she will die in the mean time, so his ruling will be moot
 
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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
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Jun 27, 2003
let's just kill all of this men women and children who are similar in capacity... beings in complete cntrol of themselves are the only ones who should live anyway.
/sarcasim

The only one who knew that she wanted to die was her cheating hubby... so hmmmmmmmm maybe he isn't as trust worthy as the media believes... if he wants to "get rid" of her and get married again then why doesn't he do it? If it's the issue of being divorced have the courts figure out a solution, let her parents take care of her expenses... I guess after all this time he might still want "what's best" but there's been speculation from day one about how she ended up in the state that she's in.


Either way, having someone starve to death is not the humane way to go. For crying out loud men and women on death row don't have it that hard! :mad:
 

Antilles

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Toni, I agree the starving to death part isn't the best way to let someone die. I don't know what would be a better option, though. I don't think Congress should get involved. They subpoened Terri herself. Are they nuts?
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Ita...

Tonichelle said:
let's just kill all of this men women and children who are similar in capacity... beings in complete cntrol of themselves are the only ones who should live anyway.
/sarcasim

The only one who knew that she wanted to die was her cheating hubby... so hmmmmmmmm maybe he isn't as trust worthy as the media believes... if he wants to "get rid" of her and get married again then why doesn't he do it? If it's the issue of being divorced have the courts figure out a solution, let her parents take care of her expenses... I guess after all this time he might still want "what's best" but there's been speculation from day one about how she ended up in the state that she's in.


Either way, having someone starve to death is not the humane way to go. For crying out loud men and women on death row don't have it that hard! :mad:

This whole situation is tragic. All I am suggesting is that ALL of us who a fortunate enough to have our full faculties, at least for today should make our wishes clear in a legal way, and avoid the possibility that any of our loved ones end up in a mess like this, where our own wishes are so unclear.
 

STL_Blues_fan

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Tonichelle said:
let's just kill all of this men women and children who are similar in capacity... beings in complete cntrol of themselves are the only ones who should live anyway.
/sarcasim

The only one who knew that she wanted to die was her cheating hubby... so hmmmmmmmm maybe he isn't as trust worthy as the media believes... if he wants to "get rid" of her and get married again then why doesn't he do it? If it's the issue of being divorced have the courts figure out a solution, let her parents take care of her expenses... I guess after all this time he might still want "what's best" but there's been speculation from day one about how she ended up in the state that she's in.


Either way, having someone starve to death is not the humane way to go. For crying out loud men and women on death row don't have it that hard! :mad:


Why would you call him a cheating husband? He doesn't want to divorce her b/c he wants to preserve her wishes, which he would not be able to were they to divorce. Is there any evidence that he cheated on her while they had a real marriage? I certainly wouldn't mind if my husband did what Michael did, if (G-d forbid!) I was in that situation. But then my parents are not religious fanatics so there wouldn't be a fight for 15 years that's for sure.

She ended up in "this state" as a result of potassium imbalance, which was brought in by bullimia. So if you are trying to imply that her husband was behind it, that is just evil.

Here's a look at Michael Shiavo, something you won't get to hear or see in the media which portrays him as snything but a caring husband:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Schiavo/story?id=590336&page=1

Here's a report on what happens when the life support is removed:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Schiavo/story?id=531907&page=1

Lastly, her life is not viable unless supported by machines. That is not a normal life, sorry.

Yana
 

Aloft04

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
I think the party of "small government" and "fiscal responsibility" are showing how completely and utterly out of control they really are on both fronts.

Hypocrisy is rampant when they can preach about the "sanctity of marriage" and then ignore the husband completely in this!!

Spare me the "sanctity of life" sermons while killing thousands all around the world while you're at it, Dubya!

This is not their business. This is not my business. It's a private family matter of tragic magnitude.
 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
It comes down to quality of life. How can someone who is brain dead, have anything even close to quality? Really she is gone already. Her husband, wants to do the humane thing and let her rest in peace. He should be given the right to make the decision.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
This case has been having me very upset. I fear the government that so interferes with our lives. What's next? What other area of personal life will the government get its paws into? Conservatives keep talking about keeping government out of where it doesn't belong; but I'd much rather have it interfere with my bank account than my bedroom... or worse yet my deathbed!

There is no chance that this woman would ever "get better", no matter what therapy she gets. None what so ever. And, no matter what her father says, she does NOT respond to anything. I know I would not want to exist like that. Neither alive nor dead. As to her husband... he waited for eight years before deciding to disconnect the tube. 8 years! I'd say that doesn't quite jive with the "selfish monster" image.

Oh, and by the way, don't get me started on the Majority Leader (the #3 man in the country!) using words such as "monster" (in regards to Michael Schiavo) and "evil" (in regards to his lawyer Fello). What I find perhaps most infuriating are the Democrats who are too afraid to speak up. In times when one party so dominates the system as GOP does today, it's the opposition's job to be vocal about "the other side". Not doing this IMO undermines the whole republican (with a small r) priciple. I can't stand the Dems just tucking their tails. The only bright spot for me is that I am very proud of my Congressman, Barney Frank, who led whatever opposition he could muster with the following statement, "I have no right to make that decision and I have no information for it. Separation of powers. When they wrote the Constitution, they weren't kidding around."

I appologize for being so emotional about this case, it just has me really upset.
 

purplecat

Final Flight
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Jul 27, 2003
Country
United-States
I'm sort of on the fence on this one. I think I would have to know Terri (both before and after) to be able to decide something like that and even then I don't know that I'd be able to make that decision. I don't think her husband is evil and I don't think her family is evil. I think they both want what's best for her, but can't come to an agreement over what that is.

What I think is tragic though is that people on both sides are making her into their poster child and really using her for their own agendas and politics. People who don't know her at all or have never seen her in person are speaking for her (again, both sides of the issue). If you ask me both sides are "playing God".

This is why I'm on the fence on this one. As a Christian I wonder.. is it "playing God" to remove her feeding tube and know that she will eventually die? Is it "playing God" to keep feeding her through tubes and keeping her alive in a vegetative state instead of allowing her to die naturally? Unfortunately, we don't know Terri's wishes and we don't really know God's plan either. I'm just sick of people using her and putting her on the front pages, etc.
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
The biggest difficulty with this one...

I think the real problem is that Terri is NOT unconcious. Even in the state she is in with severe brain damage, she is awake and it appears anyway that she responds in small ways to various stimulous. Pulling her feeding tube = starving a brain damaged, but CONSCIOUS person to death. Can you imagine if anyone ever suggested starvation as a good way to implement capital punishment??? My God the rioting would start, and rightly so. (I personally am opposed to capital punishment, but at least a lethal injection seems preferable to starvation of all things).

I will say again that the MOST unfortunate part of this is that Terri's own wishes for herself in this situation are unclear. If you haven't already done a living trust or will, DO IT NOW so that your own wishes under these types of circumstances are clear. Personally, I would choose starvation rather than living for years in such a state that has torn apart this family. (and while there's a lot of description based on circumstances, I HAVE made my own wishes clear, in writing, with the lawyers that within the parameters I've defined, I choose no life support, which would include a feeding tube even in Terri's exact case.) What I have chosen doesn't mean it's what Terri or anybody else would choose. It's a very individual and thought provoking discussion / decision.

There is another option that I WISH, WISH, WISH was an available option legally, for those of us who decide to make the choice legally, in writing, in advance. Humane euthanasia. If it's good enough for Death Row, why can't I make that choice for myself???? Of course for many people, this sort of thing raises religious concerns, etc. BUT...if each person were allowed to choose at an appropriate time when you are of legally sound mind, then people can abide by whatever religious or other beliefs they have on an individual basis.

As most of you already know, I love my dogs like my children. Life and death decisions for them are heart breaking, and I've gone through it several times now. I'm so glad to have the comfort of knowing, that at least for my dogs, if they were in Terri's shoes - in an unrecoverable state with life being sustained by a feeding tube - they have a much better option than starvation to end it all.

Sorry to sound like such a broken record, but this brings out a lot of passion in me too. I was at a business meeting this morning - it's basically a business referral group where about 20 of us get together every week representing different types of local businesses. One of the guys in the group is an attorney who does trust / estate work in addition to some other legal things. I actually gave a "commercial" for him today. In light of this Terri situation I urged that ANYONE in the room who does not yet have a living trust or will that clearly defines how life support should be handled SEE HIM SOON!!

So at least you all have the comfort of knowing you are not the only audience I'm carping at. ;)

Thanks for listening..

DG
 
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StillBlueLake

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Tonichelle said:
The only one who knew that she wanted to die was her cheating hubby... so hmmmmmmmm maybe he isn't as trust worthy as the media believes...

I'm married and if I was incapacitated for over a decade, I'd sure want my husband to move on and find happiness with someone else.

I think it's pretty sick the way the right wingers portray Michael as some sort of monster. I'm sure he misses her too.

I think the real problem is that Terri is NOT unconcious. Even in the state she is in with severe brain damage, she is awake and it appears anyway that she responds in small ways to various stimulous. Pulling her feeding tube = starving a brain damaged, but CONSCIOUS person to death. Can you imagine if anyone ever suggested starvation as a good way to implement capital punishment???

I'm sorry but you simply have the science wrong. The link above talks about how this sort of death in painless for a patient in a PVS. Terri is NOT conscious. She has sleep/wake patterns, but she is not conscious in terms of being able to think, feel or interact with the environment. The cerebral cortex, which is the part of the brain that controls feelings, memory etc, has been replaced in Terri by spinal fluid. She is still "alive" because she has a brain stem, which controls primitive functions.
 
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Aloft04

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
purplecat said:
What I think is tragic though is that people on both sides are making her into their poster child and really using her for their own agendas and politics.

I agree with this. What few know is that while governor of Texas George Bush signed a bill approving the removal of life support for patients who were unable to pay for services. His sudden change is politically expedient and a great diversion from a futile war in Iraq, dropping dollar value, rising gas prices, unprecedented budget deficits....in short, our country is in deep trouble so let's meddle in personal family matters of high media interest as a deflection.

When gays want to marry, those who oppose it wrap themselves in the "sanctity of marriage" theme. At the same time they ignore the husband's voice in this most private of matters. Hypocrisy thy name is politics.
 

dorispulaski

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Jul 26, 2003
Country
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Aloft, yes I do know about then Gov. Bush in TX signing the Futile Treatment Act. If your doctors (or your child's doctors or your mother's doctors or whomever's doctors) agree that further treatment is futile the doctors/hospital can discontinue your respirator, your feeding tube, whatever no matter what you want/wanted or what your parent, representative/guardians wanted. 5 month old baby Sun Hudson who was born with undersized lungs was taken off a respirator against his mother's wishes very, very recently in Ayatollah DeLay's home Sugarland district in TX in the last week or two. Sun was responsive, but his lungs would never properly develop.
The family got 10 days to find a facility that wouldl take the child. Since this is based generally on what they can pay they couldn't find one. Sunny von Bulow though can continue forever. If the parents/guardians/representatives don't move the patient., the patient's care is removed (food, air, very expensive drugs, whatever). I find that a lot more heartless than the Terri Schiavo case.

The issues that is being litigated here are very frightening:
Can an uninvolved party (Congress for example) come in and reopen an already adjudicated case that was refused by the Supreme Court?
Are they going to take away your right to refuse medical treatment because some religious groups don't want you to have this right?
Are they going to invalidate all living wills?
The precedents here are very bad and look like we are sliding more and more into a religious tyranny rather than a government under the Constitution.


I agree that neither Congress, nor Randall Terry (who advocates killer abortion clinic personnel) who is supporting the Schindlers, and the Schindler's, themselves are showing any respect for the institution of marriage. Terri and Michael promised to cleave only unto each other. The spouse is the guardian under both religious law and our laws. 8 or 9 years is a long time for someone to stay 'true' to a brain dead wife. I would hope my husband would find someone if we were in that position.

Terri Schiavo's motions do not show that she is in any sense conscious. They are similar to a chicken with its head cut off running around the barnyard (yes, that is not an urban myth. Chickens sometimes do that. Furthermore, it is typical that when a feeding tube is removed, that pain controlling drugs are administered. Even if Terri were capable of feeling pain, she wouldn't be feeling it.

The intrusion of politics into a family's painful tragedy is revolting. The courts had to be in it, since no agreement was reached, but the Congress, governor, and president should not be in it.

Hooray for Barney Frank, though :rock: :rock: :rock:
 
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megsk8z

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
This is a really close topic to me right now because last week my mother went in for an operation on her carotid artery and due to complications she had several strokes and wound up in pretty much the same state Terry is in. Thank goodness I had the healthcare power of attorney and her requests in writing. After the hospital did a brain scan that showed there was "something" going on in her brain but not enough to make her life a "real" life in her eyes, I had them take the ventilator and the respirator off and give her something for pain. She died within a minute or two and although it was incredibly hard on me, I know it was what my mother would want. I miss her awfully, horribly, terribly and dreadfully, but I know it was what she wanted.

And not that this has anything to do with the Terry Schiavo case, but the night my mother died we were driving around and there was a snowy owl perched on a telephone pole. She looked at me and flew off and we don't get too many snowy owls around here. THanks for letting me weigh in with my .02.
 
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