Michelle - The End or a New Beginning? | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Michelle - The End or a New Beginning?

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Red Dog said:
Somehow I feel this new scoring system was rushed into place without enough testing or tweaking. IMO one GP season isn't enough. If they thought that this would improve the credibility of the judging, they've got another think coming. This new system will be exposed to the world at the Olympics next year and it's barely one season old. Still very confusing and a lot of mistakes have happened.

I completely understand your points, and think they are valid. But the alternative seems to be a longer "test" period where both COP and 6.0 would be used throughout competitive seasons. The criteria are different, and I tend to think that the skaters have a clearer path to the podium by adopting the new system after two seasons of combined (COP and 6.0) scored events rather than prolonging use of two different judging systems. I don't know for sure, since I'm not a skater. But I respect your opinion on these matters, and am interested to know how you view the pros/cons of more quickly implementing a new system v. testing the new system for a longer period, which seems to imply that skaters would have to compete under two different systems for a longer period.

DG
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I believe that the ISU did do quite a bit of side-by-side judging of events over the last few years, to test the new judging system against the old. That is, whichever system was being used officially, there were shadow judges scoring it under the other system, just to see how it turned out.

The results of these tests were never made public. It is easy to see why. If there were many cases where the two systems produced different results, everyone would be "wuz-robbing" about how the scoring system screwed them over.

On the other hand, if both systems produced the same result, why bother to change?

To me, the more I study the numbers from actual competitions, the more impressed I am with the work that the ISU technical committees did in coming up with the point values for technical elements. That part of it seems to be working fine, better than I had expected.

As for the PCS scores, in every field of endeavor there are the rules and then there are the rules behind the rules. In baseball, the rule book says that the strike zone goes from the armpits to the knees. But everyone in the sport -- batters, pitchers, umpires and fans alike -- know that any pitch letter high will be called a ball. This is so there will be more home runs. (Although now they probably want fewer home runs, because of the steroid scandal, so they will probably raise the strike zone accordingly.)

The same is true of figure skating. If the unwritten rule says, if you do a quad you get higher scores for choreography -- well, that is not unfair as long as everyone knows the score and the unwritten rule is applied equally to everyone.

This is what Michelle needed to learn about the CoP. She did not need to skate under CoP judging to learn the rules, but she did need to learn the unwritten rules that no one will tell you straight out. Such as, you don't really get a positive GOE for a simple element done especially well, even though the rule book says you do.

IMHO the CoP is doing fine. Yes, there will be mistakes and controversy and outrage at the coming Olympics -- what else is new?

Mathman
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Doggygirl said:
...The alternative seems to be a longer "test" period where both COP and 6.0 would be used throughout competitive seasons. The criteria are different, and I tend to think that the skaters have a clearer path to the podium by adopting the new system after two seasons of combined (COP and 6.0) scored events rather than prolonging use of two different judging systems. I don't know for sure, since I'm not a skater. But I respect your opinion on these matters, and am interested to know how you view the pros/cons of more quickly implementing a new system v. testing the new system for a longer period, which seems to imply that skaters would have to compete under two different systems for a longer period.

DG

I see what you mean about two different systems. I think this is where opinions will differ. Personally, I think that since the GP appears not to be taken as seriously as the "big events", this would be the ideal place to test out Cop. If you also factor in that now a lot of the top skaters are skipping it, that's even better. They don't have to worry about the new system until it's perfected and refined. As for the skaters that choose to do it, well, there HAS to be a guinea pig of some sort, right? I just think it's better to have it tested out and refined in the smaller events rather than rushing it into the big ones where there is more likely to be scrutiny,mistakes, and crooked judging. Plus, it would turn people away from skating. Anyone who paid close attention to the judging at Euros and Worlds knows what I mean here. (some Cohen fans and others thought that Irina was overmarked in the SP). One might say this would also happen under the 6.0 system, but at least it's tried and true. Not good to have a new judging system under controversy in its first two years because it destroys its own credibility before it's even been refined. Also...the JUDGES are a big part of it, too. Any judging system would work IMO if the judges would just judge on what happened that night rather than reputation. That said, the Cop could be a step in the right direction (notice I said "Could be") because it rewards more than just jumps and a clean performance. But, the catch-22 is that the average viewer might cry "wuz-robbed" to a flawed Slutskaya or Cohen performance placed over a clean Kwan/Kostner performance. Just an example here.

Since you specifically pointed it out, I will go over the pros and cons of getting a new system out vs. refining it:

Getting the Cop out (like they did now):

Pros:

Gives all skaters a chance to compete under the new system
Rewards all elements of a performance
Exposes the system to everyone before the Olympics

Cons:

I went over some in the above paragraph, including rushing an imperfect system to judge an important competition where results truly matter, and opening it to scrutiny in its early days.

Keeping the Cop limited to judging GP events

Pros:

Gives ISU a chance to test out new system and sort out any problems or issues with it
Keep it in testing mode for at least four seasons. They could also do some test runs at second-tier competitions such as Four Continents later on as well. Even at Euros and Worlds they could have a separate (secret) judging panel who judges the competition under the Cop while the actual results go by 6.0 for a while, too.

Cons:

As you said, having two systems in play for a season. This would put the skaters who choose to do the GP at a disadvantage (wouldn't Kwan love that :laugh: ;) )

JMO, of course.
 

thisthingcalledlove

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
The more I read everyone's posts, the more I think that they should have kept the old system until 2010, and used the junior level to test the COP.

That way, the junior skaters will be coming into the senior level with better transitions and choreography (theoretically, at least).
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
thisthingcalledlove said:
The more I read everyone's posts, the more I think that they should have kept the old system until 2010, and used the junior level to test the COP.

That way, the junior skaters will be coming into the senior level with better transitions and choreography (theoretically, at least).

That's a good idea, but what about juniors that will break into the senior ranks between now and 2010? (Just playing devil's advocate here.)
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Mathman said:
Such as, you don't really get a positive GOE for a simple element done especially well, even though the rule book says you do.
Mathman
Of course not, Positive GOEs go to the judges' favorites.

Joe
 
Top