The triple-triple / 7-triple club

waly

Joesitz said:

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I think it is sad that the Wally has become a 'no-jump' except for a single used in footwork. The jump itself, imo, has more rythym that any other. A triple wally would sure look pretty to me. (The toe wally is a bore.)

Maybe some adventureous skater will throw one in one day just to show the judges that the jump is valid.

Joe

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Sorry to bother you with this question...but could you describe the wally (take off edge,landing edge, etc..) and then what a triply wally would like like; somehow i'm thinking it's kind of a flip, but from a forward take off to backward landing...but i'm not sure. Thanks.

apache88 said:

Can anyone please help complete and correct the following list of the number of times each skater has performed 7 TRIPLES in competitions, in declining order?

Sasha Cohen 3 times (confirmed, QR2003W, 2004Marshalls, LP 2005W)

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She didn't do 7 clean triples in her LP at 05 Worlds. She stepped out of the 3salchow and I think had to put her hand down?, and I'm not sure if she made any other mistakes (will have to watch it again) but IIRC at least one other jump wasn't clean either.

I've seen Kristi do seven three times. 89 Nationals...a bit of a hop on the triple salchow, but considered clean, 90 Skate America, and 92 Nationals. By the way, Kristi did two double axels in addition to the seven triples!

icenut84 said:

She didn't do 7 clean triples in her LP at 05 Worlds. She stepped out of the 3salchow and I think had to put her hand down?, and I'm not sure if she made any other mistakes (will have to watch it again) but IIRC at least one other jump wasn't clean either.

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One thing I like about COP is that we get to see the score sheets, and what was actually called as complete. Sasha recieved credit for 7 triples. She got -1 GOE across the board for her 3F, and some -1 and -2 for her 2 triple sequence. But they were all called as triples on the technical side.

Going back to the 6.0 days, I don't think we know what "wonkily landed" stuff would have been called as a 3, or a 2 if under-rotated. One of the things I like about COP.

So I would say Sasha had a 7 - 3 program in the LP at World's, with a couple of wonky landings but no falls.

DG

According to a Canadian judge, who posts at FSU regulary, under 6.0 any mistake made in triple the jump is not counted.

But was Sasha landing 7 triples in 2003 worlds qual?

mzheng said:

According to a Canadian judge, who posts at FSU regulary, under 6.0 any mistake made in triple the jump is not counted.

But was Sasha landing 7 triples in 2003 worlds qual?

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Very interesting point that I was wondering about. So where do we go to find out which 7-3 or 3/3's were "ratified" (no mistakes) under 6.0?? Or is it up to us to debate? LOL, if it's up to us, then that's just one more interesting thing we can all occupy ourselves with in the off season!!

DG

I doubt that Tonya Harding ever did 7 triples. Even when she laned the triple axel, she often doubled the planned triple toe/triple toe. I don't remember her doing all of her jumps.

So, are we counting people who only did these things once?

(IE- Joanne Carter landed 3t/3t at 1997 worlds...but never again; Lu Chen did the same in the 1998 Olys, but never again; Nelidina performed the 3A once...)

BronzeisGolden said:

HMMM....we will just begin an official list for the "7 Triple Club"
1. Midori Ito
2. Kristi Yamaguchi
3. Tonya Harding
4. Surya Bonaly
5. Michelle Kwan
6. Irina Slutskaya
7. Sarah Hughes
8. Tara Lipinski
9. Elena Sokolova
10. Tanja Szewczenko - 1998 Champion's Series Final
11. Maria Butirskaya - 1999 Worlds
12. Sasha Cohen - Didn't she do one at that post 2004 Worlds cheesefest?
13. Jenny Kirk - 2003 Skate America?
14. Shizuka Arakawa
15. Miki Ando? - Seems to me she has done one at some point

and the 3/3 club......
1. Midori Ito
2. Kristi Yamaguchi
3. Tonya Harding
4. Nancy Kerrigan
5. Kiellmann (4th at the 1994 Worlds...can't remember her first name)
6. Surya Bonaly
7. Michelle Kwan
8. Tara Lipinski
9. Irina Slutskaya
10. Sarah Hughes
11. Elena Sokolova
12. Shizuka Arakawa
13. Carolina Kostner
14. Amber Corwin
15. Miki Ando
16. Joannie Rochette
17. Jenny Kirk
18. Nicole Bobek
19. The Hungarian girl that finished 5th or 6th at the 1996 Worlds (lol, total brain fart)

That is all I can recall right now.....

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Did Debi Thomas have a 3/3?

emma said:

Sorry to bother you with this question...but could you describe the wally (take off edge,landing edge, etc..) and then what a triply wally would like like; somehow i'm thinking it's kind of a flip, but from a forward take off to backward landing...but i'm not sure. Thanks.

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No bother, Emma. I love this jump.

(let's assume the skater prefers to turn counter clockwise, and I will use the generic 'he' rather than be PC.)

While skating backwards he turns his right skate into a back inside edge. He jumps into the air and starts to rotate with emphasis on his back inside edge. Halfway through the air turns he changes his emphasis to a back outside edge as he lands on the same foot. It's the change of leaning in the air that makes it a rhythmic jump. Hope that's clear.

Oh yeah, I think your description is more of a one-foot axel. Also a jump not used anymore.

Joe

thanks Joe...I think I see it in my head. I have more questions about this jump and others...is that something to ask here, or do I start a thread...or is there a place already? Thanks in advance.

Hi, Emma, I'm not Joe, but you can ask here or start a new thread. It's better to start a new thread, though, because more people will see the title and respond to it if they are interested. There might be people interested in that topic who are not reading this thread.

The other thing you could do, if you are a skater and want expert advice from other skaters, coaches, etc., is start a new thread in the "Lutz corner" folder.

Mathman

thisthingcalledlove said:

Did Debi Thomas have a 3/3?

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I'm pretty sure that it was a triple Lutz / triple toe attempt that Debi missed at the beginning of her Olympic LP, which threw her whole program off. I don't know which events she landed it in prior to the Olympics.

MM

It was the triple toe triple toe combo that Debi stepped out of at the Olympics. I'm not sure if she ever landed it cleanly. I would guess that perhaps she did at some point, but I don't have tapes of back then. I was just beginning my obssession with figure skating then!

Debi pulled off the 3toe/3toe combo at 1988 U.S. Nationals.

nicole_l said:

One thing we need to remember is that Michelle's career has been like three times the length of a normal one, and that skaters didn't do the Grand Prix Series until pretty recently.
But still,

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If we are to compare the length of their respective careers, then a supplementary assessment is required that is the the average output per year. In this case, it is a disadvantage to those who stay longer because it pulls down the average output due to The Principle Of Diminishing Returns (PDR). The PDR applies to all aspects of life such as economics, sports, etc because they are organic. Any production associated with human will diminish over time because of deteriorating quality of the "ingredients" that have contributed to the production in the first place.

Case in point, Irina, who is one of the toughest competitors, has stayed almost as long as Michelle but she has thus far performed 3 or 4 (not sure) 7 triple-programs. What about Elena Sokolova who performed so many triples in 2003 but her output has diminished since. And Michelle is an excellent example herself, since 2002, her output has deteriorated drastically. That's why we cannot say, for example, just because Kristi had performed 3 7T-programs in 3 years, she would have done 10 in 10 years had she continued to compete.

Now even if we look at the average output per year for Michelle, despite having stayed for 11 years, her average is still 1 per year, still a much higher average than the rest except perhaps Tara's and Sarah's but then, would anyone bet had they both stayed for 11 years, they would have done more 7-triple programs than Michelle. I don't think so because it seems the PDR was far severe for Tara and Sarah.

In short, if we need to factor in the length of the career in the assessment of who is the best in performing 7 triples, 2 parameters should be used - the aboslute number of times it has been done and the average output per year. If this particular skater tops in both categories, then he/she should be #1.

I'm not gushing about Michelle here, I just find this thread interesting because I love statistics.