Miki Ando Names New Coach
- Thread starter lotusland
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Hnmmm, not sure if it's such a good idea to go to Carol Heiss. I mean, she's already a great jumper. I wonder how things would turn out if she went to Robin?
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Lipinskifan19 said:
If Ando went to Robin, then we'd hear all of Ando's dirty laundry when she decides to leave Robin.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
Carol Heiss has not had any success at all as a coach. Tonia K.'s best finish at worlds was around 7th or 8th, IIRC. Tim Goebel certainly learned the jumps but he had no artistry when he trained with Carol. Lisa Erwin made the world team in 91 but she quit skating a few years later. Aaron (can't remember last name) never made the US mens podium at nationals.
I don't understand why Miki decided to go to her. What she needs is artistry, not jumps. Is it possible that other coaches were not available to coach?
Vash
I don't understand why Miki decided to go to her. What she needs is artistry, not jumps. Is it possible that other coaches were not available to coach?
Vash
Tonya Kwiatkowski was 6th at Worlds 1998, her best finish ever. She replaced Tara, who didn't go to Worlds after her OGM.
Tonya probably was naturally artistic, and Carol helped develop. But Carol didn't help Tim much in that area, and you can realistically compare Tim and Miki, as both came to her as primarily jumpers with limited skills in other areas. I will say that Tim's spins are a lot better than most of Miki's.
I think Miki will likely retire after next season, anyway. Once Mao is eligible for Senior ISU championship events, Miki will be in her shadow. I don't think Miki wants to be in the position Fumi Suguri is in these days.
Tonya probably was naturally artistic, and Carol helped develop. But Carol didn't help Tim much in that area, and you can realistically compare Tim and Miki, as both came to her as primarily jumpers with limited skills in other areas. I will say that Tim's spins are a lot better than most of Miki's.
I think Miki will likely retire after next season, anyway. Once Mao is eligible for Senior ISU championship events, Miki will be in her shadow. I don't think Miki wants to be in the position Fumi Suguri is in these days.
Miki is a very competent jumper already, there is no reason to think training under CHJ would cause problems ... after all, wasn't that Goebel's strong suit?
As far as artistry is concerned, the article says that Miki will be going to Canada to have her new programs done. CHJ isn't doing Miki's programs, so for those who think her choreographic sense is old-fashioned and out of style, this is a mute issue.
Regarding general skating skills ... Carol has always (IMHO) turned out a very nice, solid product. Yes, I know "Timmy" couldn't skate or perform his way out of a paper bag, but was that solely Carol's fault? Didn't Timmy work with Glynn Watts (Carol's team coaching partner) in that regard??? In fact when Goebel originally left Carol, didn't he leave to work fulltime with Watts? Which didn't last. As my grandma used to say, "you can't make a souffle when you've only brussel sprouts." No offense to Tim Goebel, or any other skater, but a coach and choreograper can only do so much ... all the rest of the responsibility lies with the individual skater.
As Vash01 and others have said:
Why don't we all just wait and see how Miki's month with Carol goes and let the skater/federation decide if this is the right move?
As far as artistry is concerned, the article says that Miki will be going to Canada to have her new programs done. CHJ isn't doing Miki's programs, so for those who think her choreographic sense is old-fashioned and out of style, this is a mute issue.
Regarding general skating skills ... Carol has always (IMHO) turned out a very nice, solid product. Yes, I know "Timmy" couldn't skate or perform his way out of a paper bag, but was that solely Carol's fault? Didn't Timmy work with Glynn Watts (Carol's team coaching partner) in that regard??? In fact when Goebel originally left Carol, didn't he leave to work fulltime with Watts? Which didn't last. As my grandma used to say, "you can't make a souffle when you've only brussel sprouts." No offense to Tim Goebel, or any other skater, but a coach and choreograper can only do so much ... all the rest of the responsibility lies with the individual skater.
As Vash01 and others have said:
Just because her skaters have not won a World Championship title (yet), that doesn't mean she is not a very good coach. Without Sarah Hughes, who had an extremely flawed technique, where would Robin Wagner be? Who was Richard Callaghan before he found Todd Eldridge? If it wasn't for Michael Jiranik's work with Kurt Browning (3 World titles) before Kurt moved to Louis Stong, Stong would still be waiting for his first singles skater of consequence let alone a World Champion. And so it goes with all coaches. Some get lucky early and find a student with all the necessary components: talent, coachability and determination, others go a lifetime without ever finding their Brian Boitano. IMO, it certainly cannot hurt Miki to work with someone who has as much going for them as CHJ does, loads of experience (personal and professional), personal style and sophistication, and apparently a real appreciation of her students and the sport.
Why don't we all just wait and see how Miki's month with Carol goes and let the skater/federation decide if this is the right move?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I think Carol Heiss will be more than satisfactory as a coach. She apparently loves figure skating since she's been at it for how many years.
I think Miki has gotten very hippy (bodywise) and that may preclude that quad she was training for. Also I think Carol knows enough choreographers to get Miki to the right one.
You have to remember a coach can give a skater so much but when it comes to the moment of truth, it is the skater who has to utilize all that training in front of the judges.
TT is an example of the 'perfect' coach, and she may well be, but Shizuka and Andrej did not come through this past season. This is not TT's fault. The skater must rise to the occasion.
Joe
I think Miki has gotten very hippy (bodywise) and that may preclude that quad she was training for. Also I think Carol knows enough choreographers to get Miki to the right one.
You have to remember a coach can give a skater so much but when it comes to the moment of truth, it is the skater who has to utilize all that training in front of the judges.
TT is an example of the 'perfect' coach, and she may well be, but Shizuka and Andrej did not come through this past season. This is not TT's fault. The skater must rise to the occasion.
Joe
Joesitz said:
Yes! The "Firebird" choreography was fine, but Miki hadn't a clue what to do with it. Miki's #1 problem is she is about as musical as a fence post. You could have a team of choreographers come up with a program perfect for Miki's skating skills, but she still wouldn't be able to perform it as intended.
Timmy was never known as an artistic skater, but he has shown that he can feel the music and interpret it well ('Queen' excepted). OTOH I have never gotten the feeling that Miki even notices the music when she skates. And yes, Miki has gotten more voluptuous since last year, and her skating seems to have gone downhill. That Charlotte she did in her FS was the worst I have ever seen.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
lotusland said:
I was actually thinking about this based on the early posts. Coaches and their histories aren't my forte, but didn't Amy Weisinger (sp) hit the radar with Michael Weiss? Robin Wagner with Sarah was an obvious one.
Are there other examples maybe more closely related to CHJ where they have successfully coached for years, but came across a World winning combination of skater/coach in later years? I'm not sure Miki is "The One" but who knows...
DG
MIki and CHJ
The negative responses to this choice are puzzling because, IMHO, it seems like a lot of people don't know or understand enough about SO many things to have any sort of valid opinions.
Miki is a young girl, a minor. If you are going to send her away from her family to a foreign country to get coaching, the new coach must have more available to her than teaching "artistry" or "technique". She will need a surrogate mother as well.
For this, CHJ is perfect. Not only that, but CHJ pays attention to all the details of the skater's education, both in skating AND academics---just what a teenager needs.
She also pays attention to the details of costumes, hair and make-up, all of which are important areas for the image of the female figure skater. She can also instill confidence via the motherly coaching.
Miki IS artistic, and athletic, but she is shy and reserved, and that is what holds her back in the "artistic" side.
I see this as a carefully planned choice for a teenage jumping phenom, who is leaving home for an education to a coach who will be a surrogate mother to her.
It seems like a good plan, IMHO.
The negative responses to this choice are puzzling because, IMHO, it seems like a lot of people don't know or understand enough about SO many things to have any sort of valid opinions.
Miki is a young girl, a minor. If you are going to send her away from her family to a foreign country to get coaching, the new coach must have more available to her than teaching "artistry" or "technique". She will need a surrogate mother as well.
For this, CHJ is perfect. Not only that, but CHJ pays attention to all the details of the skater's education, both in skating AND academics---just what a teenager needs.
She also pays attention to the details of costumes, hair and make-up, all of which are important areas for the image of the female figure skater. She can also instill confidence via the motherly coaching.
Miki IS artistic, and athletic, but she is shy and reserved, and that is what holds her back in the "artistic" side.
I see this as a carefully planned choice for a teenage jumping phenom, who is leaving home for an education to a coach who will be a surrogate mother to her.
It seems like a good plan, IMHO.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
ChiSk8Fan said:
Unfortunately, many posters if not most posters, judge everything from the last competition or the last performance they have seen.
It's like actors say, 'You are as good as your last picture'.
I think Carol Heiss will be fine for Miki.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Carol Heiss Jenkins is from the "old school of figure skating" and will be a very good coach for Miki Ando. We have a coach in Canada, Osborne Colson who is now 89 going on 90 and he is still teaching!!! Some of the "old time" coaches are the best - they come from the disciplined era of skating when figures counted. She might be able to teach Ando proper edge control and how to pace herself and not race from one element to the next. Sounds like Ando learned some lessons at the Worlds.
Similar threads
- Sticky
- Sticky
