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- Jun 27, 2003
Song of the South -- Should it be re-released?
- Thread starter Tonichelle
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Interesting read.
This line caught my eye: "He made it clear that Br'er Rabbit and the other characters in the stories who represented blacks were outsmarting the "white" characters with their brains rather than brawn."
I read the books as a child (my grandmother had them). I never thought that Brer Rabbit was black. Yes, he was hip, cool and sassy. And he outsmarted the wicked Brer Fox and his dumb sidekick, Brer Bear.
But the most famous story in the series is the Tar Baby. The Tar Baby is black, coal black, and this is the one time that Brer Rabbitt was the one who got outsmarted. Brer Rabbit got mad because when he said "mornin'" to the Tar Baby, the Tar Baby wouldn't answer. To me (as a child) I got the distinct impression that what aggravated Brer Rabbit about the situation was that he (Brer Rabbit), being white, was in a superior station to the black boy, and thus the Tar Baby's silent snub was not to be born and he deserved a good beating for his insolence.
As for the Walt Disney movie, it seems innocuous enough to me.
BTW there are a lot of Walt Disney short cartoons from the 1930s that present black people and Africans as grotesque caricatures. These are not shown any more. The Warner Brothers cartoons from this era have been edited to leave out references to slavery and race (including that great Buggs Bunny one, where Yosemite Sam is a southern plantation owner, with his dog Beuregard -- Buggs: "What's this I hear about you beating slaves? Write to me at my Gettysburgh address!")
Mathman
This line caught my eye: "He made it clear that Br'er Rabbit and the other characters in the stories who represented blacks were outsmarting the "white" characters with their brains rather than brawn."
I read the books as a child (my grandmother had them). I never thought that Brer Rabbit was black. Yes, he was hip, cool and sassy. And he outsmarted the wicked Brer Fox and his dumb sidekick, Brer Bear.
But the most famous story in the series is the Tar Baby. The Tar Baby is black, coal black, and this is the one time that Brer Rabbitt was the one who got outsmarted. Brer Rabbit got mad because when he said "mornin'" to the Tar Baby, the Tar Baby wouldn't answer. To me (as a child) I got the distinct impression that what aggravated Brer Rabbit about the situation was that he (Brer Rabbit), being white, was in a superior station to the black boy, and thus the Tar Baby's silent snub was not to be born and he deserved a good beating for his insolence.
As for the Walt Disney movie, it seems innocuous enough to me.
BTW there are a lot of Walt Disney short cartoons from the 1930s that present black people and Africans as grotesque caricatures. These are not shown any more. The Warner Brothers cartoons from this era have been edited to leave out references to slavery and race (including that great Buggs Bunny one, where Yosemite Sam is a southern plantation owner, with his dog Beuregard -- Buggs: "What's this I hear about you beating slaves? Write to me at my Gettysburgh address!")
Mathman
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2004
So this is a movie? When I saw this thread I thought you were talking about the song. I was wondering who could do it better than Alabama.
Song, song of the south
Sweet potato pie and it shut my mouth
Gone, gone with the wind
Ain't nobody lookin back again....
Song, song of the south
Sweet potato pie and it shut my mouth
Gone, gone with the wind
Ain't nobody lookin back again....
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
You can check out "Birth of a Nation" from Netflix, or "Huckleberry Finn" from your local library. Why not "Song of the South"?
Just wondering.
Rave
Just wondering.
Rave
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
Ravyn Rant said:
this is exactly how I feel.
Shirley Temple movies are re-released and ALL of the Black Characters speak and spell like uneducated/stupid people. Even though they have the best lines, and are probably way smarter than their white counterparts LOL
Larry, I am surprised you didn't know Brer Rabbit was black. I learned in school that he was.
I've never seen Song of the South all the way through, just a few clips... and there's Splash Mountain, but I'm really tired of the PC crap. From what I've seen Uncle Remus is a very very smart, caring, lovable character.
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- Dec 8, 2004
I think the problem with releasing the film is that Disney couldn't market as simply a charming family film the way it does with most of its releases. They have been down this road before when they released Fantasia with the offensive African-American characters cropped out. With Song of the South, they would have to respond to the NAACP's concerns by including historical commentary on the DVD, and that may not interest the target audience. Hopefully the film will eventually be released to do away with the mystique of it being a banned film.
I find it unusual that the article cites James Baskett's honorary Oscar as evidence in favor of the film's release. That "award" was a dark moment for the Academy because they excluded him from the competitive categories and gave him the honorary award instead "for his able and heartwarming characterization of Uncle Remus, friend and storyteller to the world." That language is another reflection of the open racism present in Hollywood at that time. The film did win a competitive award for the song "Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah."
Also sad is the later life of Bobby Driscoll, who played the boy in the film:
I find it unusual that the article cites James Baskett's honorary Oscar as evidence in favor of the film's release. That "award" was a dark moment for the Academy because they excluded him from the competitive categories and gave him the honorary award instead "for his able and heartwarming characterization of Uncle Remus, friend and storyteller to the world." That language is another reflection of the open racism present in Hollywood at that time. The film did win a competitive award for the song "Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah."
Also sad is the later life of Bobby Driscoll, who played the boy in the film:
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- Jun 27, 2003
Piel said:
I understand that, but people are so overly worried about Political Correctness that they misuse it. To say that Uncle Remus is "wrong" because it's not "politically correct" means that stories from history are lost on the future generations. These stories used to be taught in schools, now we can't because it makes black people seem stupid and uneducated, when really it shows just how intelligent the slaves were even without formal training. For crying out loud they told these stories on the plantations while the white "owners" oversaw their work and rarely did anyone realize they were talking about them
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- Jun 21, 2003
I think you can go to the library and check out Song of the South. As far as Huckleberry Finn, etc., are concerned, the controversy is not over the literary merit of these works, or their value to historical scholars, but rather about whether they should be used in K-12 English classes. At what age are children ready to cope with the questions that are raised? Maybe we could substitute Tom Sawyer for children and save Huck for later.
For instance, one of the stories in the Uncle Remus book is titled, "Why the Negro is black." The little white boy asks Uncle Remus this, after observing that the palms of Uncle Remus' hands are whiter than the rest of him. Uncle Remus explains,
""Yasser. Fokes dunner w'at bin yet, let 'lone w'at gwinter be. Niggers is niggers now, but de time wuz w'en we 'uz all niggers tergedder."
He goes on to spin a tale about how everyone used to be black, but then a magic pool was discovered which would turn you white. Naturally all the people rushed down to get this wonderful thing -- whiteness. The swiftest and smartest got there first and used up all the water getting white. By the time the most slovenly folks arrived, there was only enough water left to splash their palms and the soles of their feet, so they stayed black.
As for other races,
"De Injun en de Chinee got ter be 'counted 'long er de merlatter. I ain't seed no Chinee dat I knows un, but dey tells me dey er sorter 'twix' a brown en a brindle. Dey er all merlatters." (the people who came later, after all the best water was gone, but before the laggard black folks).
He then says that the Chinese must at least have dipped their hair in the magic water, because Chinese don't have bad kinky hair.
Here is a site that has all of the stories, together with a brief analysis by a modern editor, if anyone is interested.
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~UG97/remus/selections.html
For instance, one of the stories in the Uncle Remus book is titled, "Why the Negro is black." The little white boy asks Uncle Remus this, after observing that the palms of Uncle Remus' hands are whiter than the rest of him. Uncle Remus explains,
""Yasser. Fokes dunner w'at bin yet, let 'lone w'at gwinter be. Niggers is niggers now, but de time wuz w'en we 'uz all niggers tergedder."
He goes on to spin a tale about how everyone used to be black, but then a magic pool was discovered which would turn you white. Naturally all the people rushed down to get this wonderful thing -- whiteness. The swiftest and smartest got there first and used up all the water getting white. By the time the most slovenly folks arrived, there was only enough water left to splash their palms and the soles of their feet, so they stayed black.
As for other races,
"De Injun en de Chinee got ter be 'counted 'long er de merlatter. I ain't seed no Chinee dat I knows un, but dey tells me dey er sorter 'twix' a brown en a brindle. Dey er all merlatters." (the people who came later, after all the best water was gone, but before the laggard black folks).
He then says that the Chinese must at least have dipped their hair in the magic water, because Chinese don't have bad kinky hair.
Here is a site that has all of the stories, together with a brief analysis by a modern editor, if anyone is interested.
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~UG97/remus/selections.html
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
As far as I know you can't... not even here in Alaska where we're not as worried about the Black and White issue as the Asian vs White issue (there's a lot of racism here with that, from what I understand. Kenai is seriously way too sheltered LOL)Mathman said:
I'm not saying kindergardeners would be good to read/learn about these stories.. but by jr. high or high school they should be able to.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
I have done a "Piel Poll".....
Piel's Mom (age 68) "NO!"
Piel's friend D (age 58) "Yes, I would like to take my granson to see it."
Piel's favorite neice Dani (age 25} "No, are you on crack? Besdes I had to sit through that movie waiting for "The Care Bears II" to start." I took her to see The CBII Thanksgiving weekennd when she was in kindergarden. We didn't know SOTS was being shown too.
Piel's dog Abbey (age 7) "You dsturbed my nap to ask this. Extra treats please.?"
What I remember most from seeing the movie as a child was the bluebird, loved that bluebird.
Disclaimer This poll is in no way scientific and has a huge margin of error as Piel's relatives and friends tend to be as nuts as Piel. Abbey the Corgi however is perfectly sane.
Piel's Mom (age 68) "NO!"
Piel's friend D (age 58) "Yes, I would like to take my granson to see it."
Piel's favorite neice Dani (age 25} "No, are you on crack? Besdes I had to sit through that movie waiting for "The Care Bears II" to start." I took her to see The CBII Thanksgiving weekennd when she was in kindergarden. We didn't know SOTS was being shown too.
Piel's dog Abbey (age 7) "You dsturbed my nap to ask this. Extra treats please.?"
What I remember most from seeing the movie as a child was the bluebird, loved that bluebird.
Disclaimer This poll is in no way scientific and has a huge margin of error as Piel's relatives and friends tend to be as nuts as Piel. Abbey the Corgi however is perfectly sane.
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- Jul 26, 2003
Toni, you have to be so careful with this stuff. I have no problem with Song of the South being shown, as long as its historical context is also given. But kids are kids. When I taught "To Kill a Mockingbird" in very white Lincoln, Nebraska, guess what the white kids were suddenly calling the one black girl in the school? That word never popped up before that, so I now understand why some African-Americans do get a bit riled up when certain books are taught. As the great Atticus Finch says in the book, "Don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes."
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
This movie is going to be very offensive to a lot of people. So why rerelease it? I think this is a part of our culture that America can survive without. Prejudice, bigotry, and racism is prejudice, bigotry, and racism no matter what the setting, historical reference, or how you qualify it. As for GWTW I don't think it is loved by all.
I'll just repeat what I said as my comment on the petition to release Song of the South:
It was a great memory from my childhood. I wasn't born when the movie was first released, but I was in the Mickey Mouse Club generation and saw it on tv. I want to be able to share it with my grandson and add it to my own film library.
So, yeah, I want it released. Just as I hope people will still read Huck Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird (and see that marvelous film with Gegory Peck...another fond childhood memory, both book and film).
It was a great memory from my childhood. I wasn't born when the movie was first released, but I was in the Mickey Mouse Club generation and saw it on tv. I want to be able to share it with my grandson and add it to my own film library.
So, yeah, I want it released. Just as I hope people will still read Huck Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird (and see that marvelous film with Gegory Peck...another fond childhood memory, both book and film).
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- Jun 21, 2003
Ptichka, do you really "enjoy" the Merchant of Venice?
About the Disney movie Song of the South, I think it's a stretch to find anything offensive in it. The only people who come off looking bad are the "poor white trash" bully boys who live next door. And Uncle Remus, former slave may he be, takes a stick to them!
The Uncle Remus books (Legends of the Old Plantation) by Joel Chandler Harris are more problematical. In modern translations (both into languages like Russian and into modern readable English) they come off kind of like Aesop's Fables -- cute little animal stories that pack a moral point. The Brer Rabbit trickster character seems to be universal in folklore, from the East African oral tradition to Jacob and Esau.
Harris himself was a strict believer in the virtues of the race and class hierarchies of the antebellum South. He deserves credit for taking an interest in preserving part of the story-telling culture of slavery -- but his basic point was one of nostalgia for the good old days, when the slaves knew their place and were happy and carefree, contentedly telling stories and strumming on their banjos the live-long day.
Mathman
About the Disney movie Song of the South, I think it's a stretch to find anything offensive in it. The only people who come off looking bad are the "poor white trash" bully boys who live next door. And Uncle Remus, former slave may he be, takes a stick to them!
The Uncle Remus books (Legends of the Old Plantation) by Joel Chandler Harris are more problematical. In modern translations (both into languages like Russian and into modern readable English) they come off kind of like Aesop's Fables -- cute little animal stories that pack a moral point. The Brer Rabbit trickster character seems to be universal in folklore, from the East African oral tradition to Jacob and Esau.
Harris himself was a strict believer in the virtues of the race and class hierarchies of the antebellum South. He deserves credit for taking an interest in preserving part of the story-telling culture of slavery -- but his basic point was one of nostalgia for the good old days, when the slaves knew their place and were happy and carefree, contentedly telling stories and strumming on their banjos the live-long day.
Mathman
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- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Should it be released again? Absolutely.
There are messages in the movie that we may now find objectionable, but it is a window in how we thought and reacted back in those days. Maybe we aren't proud of the way we treated people back then but it's a part of our human history and it shows how far we have come....and yet to go.
I am sure, 50 years or more down the road they will be pondering whether to release again movies that are made now. Our culture might have evolved to a point where violent content in movies may be considered "primitive and barbaric" and not suitable.
There are messages in the movie that we may now find objectionable, but it is a window in how we thought and reacted back in those days. Maybe we aren't proud of the way we treated people back then but it's a part of our human history and it shows how far we have come....and yet to go.
I am sure, 50 years or more down the road they will be pondering whether to release again movies that are made now. Our culture might have evolved to a point where violent content in movies may be considered "primitive and barbaric" and not suitable.
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