- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
This topic cropped up on the ESPN thread, and I found Mathman's observations (quoted below) very interesting. I thought this might be worthy of a new thread.
I heard on the news this morning that the Miss America Pageant is struggling to find a network to broadcast it. I know this problem has been building for several years now. I recall a time as a young girl where Mom and I (and every other Mom and daughter I knew) were GLUED to the set to watch Miss America. Times have obviously changed. The question I posed on the other thread was....Any similarities to Figure Skating?
From Mathman:
"Doggygirl, that's such an interesting observation about the Miss America contest. (Did you know I was in the Miss America pageant in 1963? This is true.)
I think that Title Nine (the law that says schools have to give equal opportunities to women's and girl's sports programs), combined with the feminism of the 1970s, has done its work. If you look at women's sports, there is no "powder puff" football any more. Women's tennis, basketball, volleyball, etc., play almost by the same rules as men, and with just as much muscle and vigor.
The sport of cheerleading, for instance, has progressed from eye candy to serious team gymnastics over the last 40 years.
Maybe we are seeing the same thing happening in figure skating. The days are numbered when its major appeal to (male) fans is a micro skirt that flips up with every turn.
But the downside is that now figure skating has to compete with other serious sports for its fan base. Look how thrilling the Master's golf tournament was yesterday, with Tiger's ball hanging on the lip of the cup through two or three verses of the Hallelujah Chorus, before dropping in for a birdie. That's what figure skating has to be able to match. " End Mathman
That got me to thinking about sports and other life places where things have really changed between women and men, and places that haven't changed so much. Here are a few examples:
1) My brother races go carts. I know as of a couple years ago they had "Powder Puff" races - my sis in law has driven for fun in those. But I somehow don't think that women are excluded from the serious races but I'm not sure. Assuming women can drive in the "real" races, I wonder if supporting men can drive the "Powder Puff" fun race?
2) About 3 years ago, one of my neighbors told me she was not allowed to join the local country club because she is a single woman. I know that women eat there and golf there, but I wonder if they are still excluding single women? The men do still have their own card room where women are NOT allowed. And that's the only place indoors at the club where smoking is allowed. I wonder when that will change?
3) I belong to the local Chamber of Commerce, and also to a "sub" group which is the Council for Working Women. There is a Chamber wide monthly luncheon, and also a Working Women monthly luncheon. Both have a featured speaker during the meeting. (and I haven't belonged long enough to have any influence over the topics!)
Chamber wide lunch - estimated 75% men in attendance:
* Improving Leadership Skills
* Changing Your Corporate Culture
* City Council presentation on the activities relating to area business growth
Working Women Luncheon - 99% women in attendance:
* Stress Relief
* Holistic Healing
* Sources for Organic Produce
Ironically, I much prefer the "men's" topics as I'm there for business reasons.
I am only a VERY casual race fan, but it was pretty exciting hearing "Ladies and Gentlemen, start your engines!" for the first time I heard it several (but not that many) years ago. I think it's sort of funny hearing the terms "Ladies" and/or "Gentlemen" associated with the aggressive sport of auto racing.
Interesting topic to think about...
DG
I heard on the news this morning that the Miss America Pageant is struggling to find a network to broadcast it. I know this problem has been building for several years now. I recall a time as a young girl where Mom and I (and every other Mom and daughter I knew) were GLUED to the set to watch Miss America. Times have obviously changed. The question I posed on the other thread was....Any similarities to Figure Skating?
From Mathman:
"Doggygirl, that's such an interesting observation about the Miss America contest. (Did you know I was in the Miss America pageant in 1963? This is true.)
I think that Title Nine (the law that says schools have to give equal opportunities to women's and girl's sports programs), combined with the feminism of the 1970s, has done its work. If you look at women's sports, there is no "powder puff" football any more. Women's tennis, basketball, volleyball, etc., play almost by the same rules as men, and with just as much muscle and vigor.
The sport of cheerleading, for instance, has progressed from eye candy to serious team gymnastics over the last 40 years.
Maybe we are seeing the same thing happening in figure skating. The days are numbered when its major appeal to (male) fans is a micro skirt that flips up with every turn.
But the downside is that now figure skating has to compete with other serious sports for its fan base. Look how thrilling the Master's golf tournament was yesterday, with Tiger's ball hanging on the lip of the cup through two or three verses of the Hallelujah Chorus, before dropping in for a birdie. That's what figure skating has to be able to match. " End Mathman
That got me to thinking about sports and other life places where things have really changed between women and men, and places that haven't changed so much. Here are a few examples:
1) My brother races go carts. I know as of a couple years ago they had "Powder Puff" races - my sis in law has driven for fun in those. But I somehow don't think that women are excluded from the serious races but I'm not sure. Assuming women can drive in the "real" races, I wonder if supporting men can drive the "Powder Puff" fun race?
2) About 3 years ago, one of my neighbors told me she was not allowed to join the local country club because she is a single woman. I know that women eat there and golf there, but I wonder if they are still excluding single women? The men do still have their own card room where women are NOT allowed. And that's the only place indoors at the club where smoking is allowed. I wonder when that will change?
3) I belong to the local Chamber of Commerce, and also to a "sub" group which is the Council for Working Women. There is a Chamber wide monthly luncheon, and also a Working Women monthly luncheon. Both have a featured speaker during the meeting. (and I haven't belonged long enough to have any influence over the topics!)
Chamber wide lunch - estimated 75% men in attendance:
* Improving Leadership Skills
* Changing Your Corporate Culture
* City Council presentation on the activities relating to area business growth
Working Women Luncheon - 99% women in attendance:
* Stress Relief
* Holistic Healing
* Sources for Organic Produce
Ironically, I much prefer the "men's" topics as I'm there for business reasons.
I am only a VERY casual race fan, but it was pretty exciting hearing "Ladies and Gentlemen, start your engines!" for the first time I heard it several (but not that many) years ago. I think it's sort of funny hearing the terms "Ladies" and/or "Gentlemen" associated with the aggressive sport of auto racing.
Interesting topic to think about...
DG