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Thread: Marshall's on TV

  1. #16
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    I'm so in love with Beatrisa Liang's LP. The intensity of the first minute almost makes your heart tremble, and the second half is so dancey and passionate. It must be the combination of the music, the intensity of the choreography, the conviction Liang skates with and all the bold moves that did me in. It has been a while that a ladies program has made such a direct impact on me. Bebe has completely won me over this season. She always had interesting choreography, but i feel she really came into her own this year and is skating like a mature woman with grown up's emotions. Her skating is not one dimensional but multi-layered, as are the emotions she projects. I have the feeling that this is just a peak at what we are going to see from her in the coming years. There aren't that many ladies skater that I can say to "skate with passion", but IMO she does. She almost made me cry when I was watching her performance at Nationals. The raw quality and edginess in her skating are so refreshing. I honestly believe this long program is an Olympic winning program and a choreographical masterpiece. It was a shame that the it went downhill from the fall on the loop. I hope she really lets her hip rest and come back in full force for the Olympic season, and I'd be thrilled if she makes the team. There are things she needs to work on, mostly in terms of getting her moves more under control, and when she reaches that level she'll be hard to beat.
    I love Meissner and her delicate style and honestly think all the "juniorish vibes" that we get from her are mostly due to her very stickish and undeveloped body. There's nothing juniorish about the way she strokes nor her carriage. That said, although I liked how she had some real choreography details in the program, I don't think it totally worked all the time. Some parts were good, but other moves just seemed downright awkward and she didn't seem confident enough doing them. I couldn't stop thinking about Yukina Ota's Daphnis et Chloe from last season while I was watching Kimmie. I would like to see her get another choreographer.
    Last edited by shine; 04-17-2005 at 04:24 PM.

  2. #17
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rgirl
    I know most of us can't get enough figure skating to watch all year, but does anybody else think that having a cheesefest a month after Worlds is just as dumb as having the Campbell's Soup Bowl too early in the season when the skaters and their programs aren't ready?

    I realize these ISU deals were Speedy's answer to those evil professional skaters taking away viewers from HIS eligible skaters. But really, what could be more anticlimactic than having tired, often injured skaters compete in an event just so they won't PO the ISU? Have the cheesefests, fine, but schedule them at better times and stop pretending they're serious competitions.
    The Marshall's event was 9 days after Worlds, not a month. In fact, Lysacek had to rush back from his post-worlds tour in Russia to make the date.

    Michelle did Bolero on the first two stops of COI just for practice for Marshall's.

    The folks that were at a disadvantage are the skaters like Savoie who haven't skated since nationals.

    Yes, the television coverage took away any possibility of thinking of the event as a serious competition by broadcasting it so late. Just as they did for the Grand Prix events and, for that matter, Worlds. In terms of figure skating as a spectator sport, it is not a competition when everyone already knows who is going to win.

    I think the competitors treat it as a serious competition. For one thing, they are going for the biggest purse in the sport. OK, money isn't everything. But don't you think Bebe Liang or Shawn Sawyer would like to win $50,000 for their efforts? Michelle, Sasha and Plushenko treated these competitions more seriously than they did the Grand Prix.

    The next good thing about the cheesefests is that they are over and done with in two hours, like a football or basketball game. You go, you watch the competition, you root for the home team -- to me, that's a nicely paced sporting event.

    I don't think the cheesfests please Speedy at all. Unlike the Grand Prix, the prizes for the cheesefests are given by the naming sponsors and by the telvision networks and their broadcast sponsors, filtered through USFS. As far as I know, the ISU does not get anything for television rights. The format of the cheesefests, who is invited, will it be a national or international meet, etc. -- these things are decided in negotiations between the television networks, the sponsors and USFS, not the ISU.

    The ISU "sanctions" the event only because they are afraid the skaters would bolt otherwise. Speedy would be pleased to see the cheesefests go out of business and instead to have the Grand Prix events televised on major networks.

    Yes, there is a certain feeling to these shows of Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney saying, let's get all the guys together and put on a skating contest in the old barn. That's part of their charm.

    I like it. There's the Campbell's kickoff show, ready or not, HERE COMES FIGURE SKATING! The Marshall's show at the end is our wistful goodbye to the season. The one in the middle is the warm-up for nationals. What's not to like?

    MM
    Last edited by Mathman; 04-17-2005 at 04:33 PM.

  3. #18
    Down With It
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    Yes, the television coverage took away any possibility of thinking of the event as a serious competition by broadcasting it so late. Just as they did for the Grand Prix events and, for that matter, Worlds. In terms of figure skating as a spectator sport, it is not a competition when everyone already knows who is going to win
    Worlds was televised on ESPN the SAME DAY (except for the ladies' short and any others I may have missed I guess). I suppose people would watch live coverage at 3am in the morning instead of in primetime?

    Same day delay is NOT bad at all. However, a one or two week delay, in the case of the pro-ams, is. It's fine if it is a show, but a competition needs to be shown as soon as possible to attract more viewers. Show them live even, if possible. If it's only two hours long...many basketball and football games go on longer than that.

  4. #19
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    Worlds was televised on ESPN the SAME DAY (except for the ladies' short and any others I may have missed I guess)
    IIRC the ESPN coverage didn't even start until Thursday. CBC had nightly two-hour coverage starting on Monday of whatever events had gone on that day. CBC put on the ladies LP live in the afternoon. ESPN aired in several hours later, at night.

    Anyway, about whether the cheesefests are real competitions or not --

    A football game is still a football game even though it's not the Super Bowl. The Family Circle Cup tennis tournament just completed yesterday is not Winbledon, but the players show up ready to compete (Justine Henin-Harden won, Venus Willimas was upset in a preliminary round), and the fans pay their money to see a good battle. Why pick on figure skating, calling these events cheesefest, etc.?

    Mathman

  5. #20
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    Same day delay is NOT bad at all. However, a one or two week delay, in the case of the pro-ams, is. It's fine if it is a show, but a competition needs to be shown as soon as possible to attract more viewers. Show them live even, if possible. If it's only two hours long...many basketball and football games go on longer than that.
    I agree, I agree the Cheesfests can be shown at any time and they could go on ESPN for all I care. However, I think Campbells has some value in that it gives a glimpse of some skaters before Nationals. (not that MK and SC will be doing anything but their standard routines to different music.) It would be better if they showed more skaters than they do but, heavens, this is not for the skating fans..

    Real ISU events should be seen LIVE and in total!! at any time of the day or night. That's what VCRs are for. The networks can show the edited version anytime they want.

    Joe

  6. #21
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    Red Dog,
    Actually, since they moved Campbell's from late August to sometime in September, it's not so bad, so on second thought, I don't have much of a problem with Campbell's.

    Mathman,
    Nine days after Worlds! Oy! I knew it was tape delayed but I thought it was only by about a week.

    So, uh, Mathman, where do you get all your inside information on what Speedy likes and doesn't like, hmm???

    Oh, I so hope you're a double agent!

    Okay, so you like the cheesefests. I've found them all to be total snoozers except one performance in one Campbell's, when Sasha did TAT's b&w "Swan Lake." But that was only because it was unexpectedly beautiful choreography and a new take on an old warhorse and Sasha skated very well.

    If it's true that Speedy would like to get rid of the cheesefests then I guess I - i - I - OMG, I can't say it! I guess I agree with Speedy! (Rgirl runs to the bathroom to barf.) Okay, back now. Actually, the idea of a warm-up competition as Campbell's has turned out to be is okay. The rest of them give the skaters who aren't on the touring circuit, unlike the hula-hoop girl and the acrobats, a chance to win prize money, which is a good thing.

    So how about you watch them and I won't, except for Campbell's, okay?.

    Rgirl
    Last edited by Rgirl; 04-18-2005 at 07:28 AM.

  7. #22
    Figure Skating Is A Dangerous Sport Dee4707's Avatar
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    I enjoyed Marshalls. Evan was marvelous!! He deserved to win although I would have loved it more if Johnny had. I am really happy that Johnny attempted the quad...............and almost made it. I don't care what anyone says, I just love watching Sasha even with all the flubs, falls, and hands down on the ice. I could watch her all day long.

    I say good for DB getting on Michelle.....somebody needed to. I really don't understand her at all.

    Oh well.

    Dee

  8. #23
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rgirl
    So how about you watch them and I won't, except for Campbell's, okay?.
    Absolutely not! You must watch the December cheesefest from Detroit. If you won't watch on TV, I will send you my own tape that I made of it with my new video-binoculars, and make you watch it. (No cameras allowed, but what can be the harm in these old binoculars to aid my poor tired old eyes, officer? heh heh )

    Anyway, now that the Grand Prix is dead, you guys are killing figure skating by turning your back on the only thing going on in the sport, television-wise. It's all your fault. At least Detroit is doing it's part to keep the sport alive (most notably providing the venue for Jeff Gillooly's henchmen to attack Nancy Kerrigan in 1994 -- what other city can make that claim?)

    MMMMMMMM

  9. #24
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    And I kind of agree that if you are going to risk bodily injury practicing the triple triple, then WHY NOT put it in a competition or show to make sure you can do it with nerves too????
    Perhaps because you have suffered some sort of injury/strain which makes your BODY unable to do it? Perhaps Alexandra Stevenson was totally in la-la land, but she did say that Michelle had done something to her back in practice before Marshall's.
    There had been speculation she might not skate when, in the afternoon’s practice, she did not run through her routine and left the ice early. It turned out she had hurt her back
    http://iceskatingintnl.com/current/c.../marshalls.htm
    Anyway, just a thought to counter Button's bitching about the missing triple-triple.

  10. #25
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    I totally missed the comment about Michelle's back at Marshalls...yes, of course, that would explain a lot of things....except perhaps (????) a totally empty program basically every time we saw it (here I mean transitions, mitf), which she does do in exhibition (albeit with fewer jumps, but i'm just saying she can do them physically speaking). I love Michelle, and I'm totally willing to JUST BELIEVE she has some master plan to win the OG...I'm just worried that the plan may not be going as planned (back injury would be part of this, unexpected nerves another part?, reluctance for whatever reason to change her formula). I'm also aware that it's her life and she will do what she decides to do, which may even be retire (I mean at some point she will have to)....in the meantime, I can't help, yes as an uber-fan, but to really want to see Michelle do triple triples, transitions, mitf, her spiral (not the CoP version), and even her not so wow spins, but do that GREAT, because when she does, she leaves most of us speechless....so I guess my original comments are more about hoping for that, perhaps, one last WOW Michelle competitive performance (and quite honestly, if she does that AND 'looses' the gold, I would still be wowed and thus happy).

  11. #26
    Tripping on the Podium
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    I've never understood all the invective directed at these competitions some insist on calling "cheesefests." Sorry, but I'm happy to see any skating competition televised.

    That having been said, the reason why they have become less than exciting is primarily the fault of the skaters. This past Marshall's was appalling because the performances were appalling. (YES... there were some great moments, although few and far between). But I have had just about enough of the excuses. If these are world class athletes... and they want to think they are... they need to step up to the plate. In no other sport do you hear such whining. Ask a professional basketball or baseball player how many games they played in a season and compare it to how many competitions these skaters enter.

    How can the viewers, network executives and advertisers be expected to get excited about an event when the skaters treat it as a chore?

    And leave it to Michelle Kwan to set the standard again. Say what you will about her- but at least she didn't phone this one in.

  12. #27
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5
    Anyway, just a thought to counter Button's bitching about the missing triple-triple.
    I don't think Dick was bitching about the Marshalls. I think he was bitching about the lack of missing triple-triples. When was the last time you saw one by Mk?

    They actually count mucho in the CoP and imo, influence the PCS.

    Joe

  13. #28
    Tripping on the Podium
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    I enjoyed the competition.

    Evan is growing on me. I love Johnny's skating so much - I really want to see him on that Olympic podium! It was great to see him try the quad, and not a bad attempt. He stayed on his feet, anyway. Oh Tim. It is so sad. He has improved the quality of his movement so much, but he has lost so much confidence. And the posture has been really tough for him to correct.

    I am with those who say Bea should have been fourth. Kimmie is terrific, but definitely needs to work on her arms. I can't get too excited about Emily. She has a lot of spunk and great energy, so I'll give her that. But it seems to me she has almost all Sarah's faults, without possessing her virtues. Sorry - that sounds too harsh. But you know - hunched posture, bent knees, landing jumps so far forward and bent over. Yet she doesn't have the fluidity Sarah had, or the gorgeous layback. So we'll see - lots of room and possibility for growth there.

    Sasha - I know she's injured, but nothing new here as far as insecure jump landings and beautfiul everything else.

    Michelle. Well, Dick really laid it on. And yes, she has to really work and step up, etc. But did anyone else notice how high her jumps were? Especially the toe pick jumps, she really jumped UP much more than before. And one spin sequence (with the catch foot leg up to the side) was the fastest spinning I have seen her do in a long time. So I have hope.

    And since everyone knows that Rgirl is about the smartest person on this board (no offense other smart people), if she says she "just knows" Michelle is going to win OG, then that is that. It just makes me feel great every time I read your posts that say that, Rgirl. It's easy to figure out why she can't and won't, but so nice just to believe that she will.

  14. #29
    Custom Title brad640's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kareliz
    I am with those who say Bea should have been fourth. Kimmie is terrific, but definitely needs to work on her arms. I can't get too excited about Emily. She has a lot of spunk and great energy, so I'll give her that. But it seems to me she has almost all Sarah's faults, without possessing her virtues. Sorry - that sounds too harsh. But you know - hunched posture, bent knees, landing jumps so far forward and bent over. Yet she doesn't have the fluidity Sarah had, or the gorgeous layback. So we'll see - lots of room and possibility for growth there.
    These next generation skaters are great, but I hope Angela makes the Olympics. If she can make it back, she has much more potential than any of them to do well, and everyone else can wait until 2010.

  15. #30
    Go NJ Devils
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    Re: 3/3's for Ladies and CoP, the two jumps that can complete a 3/3 are 3T (4 pts) and 3Lo (5 pts). That's compared to the yield for the last two jumps in a 3/2/2: 2.8 points for 2T+2Lo and 2.6 points 2T+2T.

    AFAIK, only two Ladies have completed 3/3/2 successfully in the last two years: Arakawa and Kostner. Many Ladies -- not all of them televised -- completed 3/2/2's in Moscow, while very few attempted 3/3's. 1.4 or 1.2 points in base is not that much value for the additional risk involved in practicing and landing 3/3's. And given the chance of having a 3Lo be downgraded to a 2Lo, as Ando saw this year, that's a lot of risk for 2.4 or 2.5 additional base points.

    The more typical 3/3 is 3T+3T, which is worth 8 points, compared to a 3Lz+2T, which is worth 7.3 points and is a standard combo among top 15 Ladies skaters, or 7.5 points for the 3Lz+2Lo.

    That's according to the written code. As long as the judges respect 3/3's, I expect the GOE's for 3/3's to be higher than the GOE's for the same quality 3/2's, and the PCS for skaters with 3/3's to be bumped up, the same way that Biellman spins with travels garner + GOE.

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