Any Comments On That Smoker in Rome?

Joesitz (RIP) · Apr 18, 2005

I'm not a believer but this sort of thing does affect my life.

I'd like to see an African get it but they tend to be too orthodox.

I'll go for the Brazilian or the Mexican provided they are progressive.

Joe

Mathman · Apr 18, 2005

Joe, I long for the good old days when men were men and they settled these things according to time-honored tradition. Nothing mamby-pamby about Papal succession back then!

http://www.freep.com/news/religion/conclave15e_20050415.htm

"One of the most bizarre loose ends was the "cadaver synod" after the election in 896 of the insanely vengeful Pope Stephen VI. He harbored so much anger at a predecessor, Pope Formosus, that he had his corpse exhumed.

"Formosus' decomposing body was dressed in papal vestments, propped on a throne and put on trial for crimes against church law, including perjury. Unable to mount a defense, Formosus' ghastly remains were convicted. As punishment, the three fingers Formosus once used to bless the faithful were hacked from his right hand. His body was dragged away and thrown into the Tiber River....(or)

"Consider poor John XVI, who thought he was the rightful pope, according to Roman nobles who pushed him onto the papal throne in 997. Unfortunately, another politically powerful pope, Gregory V, was alive elsewhere in Europe.

"Gregory returned to Rome and was not amused at finding a rival. He ordered John's eyes put out as well as his nose and ears sliced off. Then, to underline the point, John was excommunicated. Should he wish to object, his lips, teeth and tongue were removed next. And his mutilated body, still alive, was shipped to a monastery."

Joesitz (RIP) · Apr 18, 2005

Mathman - Thanks for the stories. I should read more about the Popes. Their lives are so fascinating and always more political than religious.

My only knowledge is when reading about the diMedicis. Tuscany must have been the in place to be in those days.

I'm not sure but wasn't Lucretia Borgia also involved with the Popes? up there in Lombardy.

Joe

Mathman · Apr 18, 2005

Lucretia Borgia was the illegitimate daughter of Pope Alexander VI. Her brother (by another of Alexander's mistresses) was the notorius (Cardinal) Cesare Borgia, who was the subject of Machiavelli's "The Prince."

Dee4707 · Apr 18, 2005

Mathman said:
Joe, I long for the good old days when men were men and they settled these things according to time-honored tradition. Nothing mamby-pamby about Papal succession back then!

http://www.freep.com/news/religion/conclave15e_20050415.htm

"One of the most bizarre loose ends was the "cadaver synod" after the election in 896 of the insanely vengeful Pope Stephen VI. He harbored so much anger at a predecessor, Pope Formosus, that he had his corpse exhumed.

"Formosus' decomposing body was dressed in papal vestments, propped on a throne and put on trial for crimes against church law, including perjury. Unable to mount a defense, Formosus' ghastly remains were convicted. As punishment, the three fingers Formosus once used to bless the faithful were hacked from his right hand. His body was dragged away and thrown into the Tiber River....(or)

"Consider poor John XVI, who thought he was the rightful pope, according to Roman nobles who pushed him onto the papal throne in 997. Unfortunately, another politically powerful pope, Gregory V, was alive elsewhere in Europe.

"Gregory returned to Rome and was not amused at finding a rival. He ordered John's eyes put out as well as his nose and ears sliced off. Then, to underline the point, John was excommunicated. Should he wish to object, his lips, teeth and tongue were removed next. And his mutilated body, still alive, was shipped to a monastery."

Thanks Math for the history lesson in popes and all I can say is YIKES!!!!

Dee

RealtorGal · Apr 18, 2005

It never ceases to amaze me what kind of physical torture human beings are so willing to inflict on other human beings.

Tonichelle · Apr 18, 2005

I hope that the Cardinals would choose the man GOD wants and not one who will succumb to what the world tells them they should do. Meaning change not only their beliefs but re-write the Bible.

But that's just this little Southern Baptist's opinion (hee hee)

Ptichka · Apr 18, 2005

Toni, does this mean you'd favor Cardinal Ratzinger, who insists that noone who doesn't believe in Christ can achieve salvation? Somehow I'd find that odd...

Joesitz (RIP) · Apr 18, 2005

Pitchka - Anyone but Ratzinger. We'll be saying the world is flat.

Joe.

Mathman · Apr 18, 2005

Ptichka said:
Toni, does this mean you'd favor Cardinal Ratzinger, who insists that noone who doesn't believe in Christ can achieve salvation? Somehow I'd find that odd...

Pichka, you are putting Toni on the spot with this question. This is the teaching of Christianity in all of its traditional forms.

Dee4707 · Apr 19, 2005

Tonichelle said:
I hope that the Cardinals would choose the man GOD wants

Wouldn't you hope for that? I wonder how many of us do what God wants us to? So why would the cardinals be any different?

Dee

Ptichka · Apr 19, 2005

Mathman said:
Pichka, you are putting Toni on the spot with this question. This is the teaching of Christianity in all of its traditional forms.

You're right; I only put this question to Toni because she never shies away from articulating exactly what she believes in. Also, as to traditional Christianity - yes, however Vatican 2 rejected this by saying we have no idea who would receive salvation and who wouldn't.

Personally, I like the Jewish teachings on that - all you have to do is follow Noah's laws, which have nothing to do with Judaism at all.

Dee4707 · Apr 19, 2005

The Smoke is White

We have a new Pope

Benedict XVI

Dee

curious · Apr 19, 2005

yes is ratzinger :biggrin:

dfj · Apr 19, 2005

curious said:
yes is ratzinger

So much for the Church taking any progressive steps in any direction. It remains to be a fine and safe place to be if your male and heterosexual. :scowl:

chuckm · Apr 19, 2005

So now it starts. The Pope has hardly been named and now he's going to be browbeaten for not immediately kowtowing to the demands of the mainstream media.

Ptichka · Apr 19, 2005

1. Chuckm, this is not about the mainstream media. The new Pope has dedicated his career to fighting any innovation - and that's fact.

2. I also find it interesting that the Cardinals chose someone who is 78 years old, confirming early speculations that the Vatican this time will go for a shorter papacy, and will decide which general direction to take the church in the next round. I'd say it even makes sense, since J.P.'s legacy was so great that it would probably be too hard to find an adequate replacement so soon.

dlkksk8fan · Apr 19, 2005

also find it interesting that the Cardinals chose someone who is 78 years old

I also found that interesting too. I thought why such an old Pope?

swannanoa54 · Apr 19, 2005

Considering the fact that this new Pope said that Catholicism (sp) is the only true christian religion and is considered ultra-conservative, I'm a little dismayed. But I'm also overjoyed that I'm a Protestant.

Any Comments On That Smoker in Rome?

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin

RealtorGal

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Ptichka

Forum translator

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin

Ptichka

Forum translator

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin

curious

dfj

chuckm

Ptichka

Forum translator

dlkksk8fan

swannanoa54

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