Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 153

Thread: Kwan at the Crossroads and Choices

  1. #16
    Kwan's vodka dealer VIETgrlTerifa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Newark
    Posts
    470
    Quote Originally Posted by gezando
    Where did you get this information?? When Kwan was with Frank it was very much a 2 way street. Since when did Frank ever said Kwan wanted things her way?? Confused Kwan and Frank with Cohen and Nicks?? maybe??
    It's just people taking small bits of information and spinning them in a way that best suits their purpose. They really have no idea what they're talking about.

  2. #17
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,926
    After seeing what she did in the COI, I am convinced that she is going to take on the challenge to do well under COP. Of course a COI exhibition cannot compare with a real competition but it shows the mindset. She is definitely not going to quit or stagnate. She will give the next season her all. That is just my impression.

    Vash

  3. #18
    Kwan's vodka dealer VIETgrlTerifa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Newark
    Posts
    470
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    After seeing what she did in the COI, I am convinced that she is going to take on the challenge to do well under COP. Of course a COI exhibition cannot compare with a real competition but it shows the mindset. She is definitely not going to quit or stagnate. She will give the next season her all. That is just my impression.

    Vash
    I hope you're right. I'm really conflicted regarding Kwan. During this past Worlds, I wanted to shake her up and tell her what she needs to do, but then afterwards, I sort of understood why she's doing what she was doing.

  4. #19
    Custom Title brad640's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    400
    First, I do not see Michelle at a crossroads. I remember all the naysayers after the 2002 Olympics who speculated that Kwan would be bypassed by numerous skaters by the 2006 season, that there was no way she could motivate herself to keep competing for 4 years until 2006, that 2006 was so far away and skating was so unpredictable there was no way she could stay within striking distance for a 3rd Olympics. Now the Olympic season is upon us and Michelle has not fallen into the depths of mediocrity as predicted. I don’t see any reason for her to retire, and I think she is declining to make a definitive statement to the press because she is trying to preserve her underdog status this time around.

    Second, I do not think she needs dramatic changes in her programs. The judges liked her just fine under CoP, and she only needs to improve her consistency with the new CoP jump repertoire that Rafael has laid out for her. She has even incorporated CoP training into her COI routines, landing her 3 jump combos during the tour. Any wishful speculation that Michelle will fail because she is not following Rafael’s advice is contradicted by all the statements she has made all season that she is fully entrusting Rafael to improve her programs for CoP.

    Third, under Michelle’s CoP strategy, I don’t think her success hinges on her choice of choreographer. She has proven herself as an artist, and the judges will reward her artistry regardless of whose name is attached to her programs. The skaters with poor artistry like Ando are the ones who need to gain an edge from big name choreographers. Furthermore, Nichol is not an ace for singles programs because she did Jenny’s Beatles number that was universally panned this season.

  5. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,177
    Quote Originally Posted by brad640
    [B][COLOR=Blue]Second, I do not think she needs dramatic changes in her programs. The judges liked her just fine under CoP, and she only needs to improve her consistency with the new CoP jump repertoire that Rafael has laid out for her. She has even incorporated CoP training into her COI routines, landing her 3 jump combos during the tour. Any wishful speculation that Michelle will fail because she is not following Rafael’s advice is contradicted by all the statements she has made all season that she is fully entrusting Rafael to improve her programs for CoP.
    Interesting comments given that Slutskaya and Cohen greatly outscored her in several areas that had nothing to do with jump content.

  6. #21
    Lovin' the Kween ... Now and Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,021
    If Michelle decides to compete next season (which I believe she will), she will be just fine. She has saved herself the past three seasons (to have a chance in Torino) ... and I know that is a real source of anger and frustration for many, but she made a decision and there is no looking back. Whatever happen next season, she made the best choice for herself, and she can be happy with that. There is nothing about COP that she can't handle. Anyone who is counting on her to be out of the running is making a huge mistake.

  7. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,177
    Well the fact she could not win 98 and 2002, when she was going into the Olympic year in a far stronger position than she is right now, makes it easy to see why even some of her ardent fans are skeptical of her chances to win the gold. The only theory, relative to 98 and 2002, in her favor I can see is her not having the pressure of being the favorite, but I dont even agree on that since the U.S mass media will still promote her as the overwhelming favorite for the gold, and place that pressure and expectation on her.

  8. #23
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    819
    I don't see why so many people are quick to say a coach has too high an opinion of their athlete when they publicly praise them. What is said in public does not necesarily reflect what is said in a private lesson. Skating has so many political overtones to it that I would seriously question a coach that criticizes too much publicly. If I had a coach that did that, I would dump them quickly. Critique me in private, build me up in the public eye.

  9. #24
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    908
    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    Well the fact she could not win 98 and 2002, when she was going into the Olympic year in a far stronger position than she is right now, makes it easy to see why even some of her ardent fans are skeptical of her chances to win the gold. The only theory, relative to 98 and 2002, in her favor I can see is her not having the pressure of being the favorite, but I dont even agree on that since the U.S mass media will still promote her as the overwhelming favorite for the gold, and place that pressure and expectation on her.
    Oh but the Cohen camp / Nicks are promoting Cohen as the #1 America lady skater, so I doubt Kwan will be the overwhelming favorite for the gold even from USA press. Internationally we all know from posters outside of US are not impressed with Kwan (they keep reminding us about this).

    Irina will be the defending world champ, she will be the overwhelming favorite for gold, Kostner will be the hometown girl and regining bronze medalist the faavorite for gold in Italy, and Cohen will be promoted by Nicks and USA as the #1 USA lady, Kwan will not have the pressure.

    I believe Irian will win the gold in Turin, that makes her overall achievement in her career ahead of Kwan. Cohen will need to win an oly gold medal at 06 or 2010 to have an overall career record ahead of Michelle. Irina will be toughg for Cohen to beat next year, in 2010 who knows.

  10. #25
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,335
    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    Interesting comments given that Slutskaya and Cohen greatly outscored her in several areas that had nothing to do with jump content.
    It is interesting to look at the numbers. In total jumps, the scores in the LP (counting GOE) were

    Irina 42.82

    Sasha 41.15

    Michelle 38.65

    Michelle lost 5.71 points on her two flubbed jumps (the fall on the Salchow and the problems on the second Lutz). If she had landed those jumps cleanly, everything else being equal, Michelle would have won the jumping part of the contest, with 44.36

    Michelle also scored the highest on her straight line step sequence (3.60 to 3.53 for Irina and 3.39 for Sasha).

    Where Michelle lost ground was on the spins and the spiral sequence. (Oh, those Bielmanns!)

    Total spins: Irina 13.14, Sasha 12.69, Michelle 9.41; Spiral: Irina 4.54, Sasha 5.40, Michelle 3.96.

    To me, it's the same as it always was. Land the jumps, and everything else will follow automatically (high PCS, for instance).

    Mathman

  11. #26
    Custom Title heyang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    3,207
    I thought one of the commentators mentioned that MK outjumped Sasha and Irina during the SP.


    IMO, MK has at least a shot at the Oly podium again. Who knows?

  12. #27
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,335
    Quote Originally Posted by heyang
    I thought one of the commentators mentioned that MK outjumped Sasha and Irina during the SP.
    Yes, for the jump elements in the Short Program it was

    Michelle: 16.96

    Irina: 16.24

    Sasha: 16.10

    Where Michelle lost it was again in the component scores; Irina, 30.34, Sasha, 30.08, Michelle, 29.02.

    So according to the CoP, Michelle is just a little jumping bean who can outjump the other girls every time. But alas, her presentation is not up to par. She's sort of like Yoshie Onda, according to the New Judging System.

    Mathman

  13. #28
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,335
    Quote Originally Posted by gezando
    I believe Irina will win the gold in Turin, that makes her overall achievement in her career ahead of Kwan.
    Hmm...There is no way to come up with a rating system that everyone would agree with, but if it were up to me, I would make it something like this:

    Olympic Gold -- 10 points
    Olympic silver -- 5 points
    Olympic bronze -- 3 points

    World Gold -- 5 points
    World silver -- 3 points
    World bronze -- 1 point

    Europeans -- 3,2 and 1 (It's not fair to include European titles to compare one skater against another, because non-European skaters can't compete. Still, in evaluating the career of a competitor like Slutskaya, you can't overlook 6 European championships. Four Continents, for various reasons, is not a prestigious enough event to make the list.)

    National Championship -- 1 point. (Again, not exactly fair, because a skater representing a small country might win a bunch of them without competition. Oh, well.)

    Grand Prix championships -- 1 point.

    Grand Prix finals -- 3,2 and 1.

    OK, so Michelle has Olympic silver and bronze, 5 world championships, 3 silver and 1 bronze, plus 9 U.S. championships. That's 52 points so far, plus some Grand Prix points.

    Irina has Olympic silver, 2 world championships, 3 world silvers, 6 European gold, 2 Euro silvers, and 6 (?) Russian Nationals. That's also 52, plus lately Irina has a big edge over Michelle in Grand Prix points.

    I guess I better factor in Michelle's gold in Torino!
    Oh but the Cohen camp / Nicks are promoting Cohen as the #1 America lady skater, so I doubt Kwan will be the overwhelming favorite for the gold even from USA press.
    I think both Cohen and Kwan will get a lot of publicity from the U.S. press. As for me personally, it has taken me a long time to warm up to Sasha's skating. Despite excellent results in the last two World championships, I am a fan of only 90% of her skating. That's the 90% of her from the ankles up, LOL.

    Mathman

  14. #29
    http://p068.ezboard.com/bstrawberrycanyonfsc
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Scripps Ranch- A suburb of San Diego
    Posts
    817
    I don't think she's at the crossroads at all. I think she just needs to do the GP...and maybe tack on a biellmann or two or three...hundred! in her program.

  15. #30
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    299
    [QUOTE=gezando]Oh but the Cohen camp / Nicks are promoting Cohen as the #1 America lady skater, so I doubt Kwan will be the overwhelming favorite for the gold even from USA press. Internationally we all know from posters outside of US are not impressed with Kwan (they keep reminding us about this).

    QUOTE]

    I don't agree. USA media won't care if Michelle is not the favorite for the gold. She will get the lion's share of pressure and scrutiny from the U.S. media simply because she's a champion who is going for her 3rd attempt at the elusive Olympic gold. I can see the Dan Jansen comparisons now. It won't matter what magic Nicks spins, Michelle's assured the most oppresive amount of media pressure. You'd think Nicks would sit back and let it happen so that Sasha could fly under the radar. But I don't think that's what going to happen. He will want Sasha's name front and center and will work hard to do so. It's almost a full time job for Nicks, and I feel sorry for him. Shucks, Kwan could actually skip every press conference and refuse interviews, and she'll still get the overwhelming media attention (albiet not for all the best reasons). Should be an interesting season from a media standpoint.

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •