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Thread: Jump Combos

  1. #1
    Rboi
    Guest

    Jump Combos


    Hi All,

    A bunch of us were watching an old World's tape the other day, during which Jill Trenary did a one foot axel into 3S, which was a very :smokin: combo we thought. Intense discussion followed about jump combos, especially in light of what the Japanese ladies have been doing of late and, as the sole net-capable person, I have been delegated to post a few questions...

    Trenary did a single one foot axel into 3S. Has anyone done a double or triple one-foot axel into 3S? Is this possible?

    A friend of mine has "Magic Memories on Ice" (or something similar) on tape and Toller Cranston did a 1.5F straight into 2(?) A, which just looked fantastic. With the increase in technical since Toller's time, how come combos like this have not been developed further?

    Finally, it seems a given the men should have 3A-3T combo down pat, so why aren't the ladies doing combos with their 2A? I for one would love to see 2A-3R or 2A-3T combo rather than the ubiquitious 3L-2T (or 2R), (especially since most of the ladies can't hold the outside edge on the L anyway). I realise max tech points are the name of the game, but is there that much difference (gaining points) between, as an example, a 3L-2T and a 2A-3R??

    Your thoughts??





  2. #2
    Joesitz
    Guest

    Re: Jump Combos


    Rboi - Good point. Why don't we see more one foot inside and outside axels (could be doubled) into a triple salchow or triple loop delpending. The one foot axels are apparently out of favor except in Kurt's footwork routines.

    Pardon my lack of abbreviation knowldege, but what is an "R"?

    Yes, indeed, the ladies could and should do a double axel followed by a triple toe. A nice trick if it is done well.

    Joe

  3. #3
    FetalAttraction
    Guest

    Re: Jump Combos


    R stands for loop, it's used so that it won't be confused with the abbreviation for lutz, which is l. I guess they're going by how they pronounce loop in Japan.

    By the way, Rboi (any relations to rgirl?), the double axel/triple toe combo is frequently done by junior ladies, they seem to ditch it for senior competitions, though. Both the current triple axel girls, Ludmilla and Yukari have done the triple axel/double toe combination successfully in competition, I think.

  4. #4
    tdnuva
    Guest

    Re: Jump Combos


    Not sure about the reason for the abbreviation - but in German we call the loop Rittberger - after Werner Rittberger, skating before the first world war who probably "invented" the loop.

  5. #5
    FetalAttraction
    Guest

    Re: Jump Combos


    tdnuva,

    Thanks! That makes a rot more sense than my expranation.

  6. #6
    Rboi
    Guest

    Re: Jump Combos


    Hi All,

    Thanks for your comments. Fetal, tdnuva is correct as to the "R" for loop. I began skating when I was living in Germany as a child, so I always refer to the loop as "R", usually to the confusion of most. The loop was my best jump, hence
    R(ittberger)boi, so no relation to rgirl (and no offence to her either, as I love eveything she posts!)



  7. #7
    Kzarah
    Guest

    Re: Jump Combos


    EzCode Parsing Error: face=helvetica color=navy size=4]I just wish the ladies would start using a different combo in the short program. The triple lutz double toe loop is getting really old.
    Daniel and Littl

  8. #8
    Rboi
    Guest

    Re: Jump Combos


    I'm so with you D&L. 3F(masquerading as 3L)-2T has been done to death.

    I've always like the idea of the 2-3 combo, which is much harder than 3-2. I remember Midori Ito's 2R-3R she used to do in her short programme, which was just georgeous and of course, Tara's 3R-3R was hot too.

    Other good (albeit very difficult) sequences would be 3F or 3L-.5R-3S (I think this sequence with 3F would be good for Sasha as she seems very solid on both 3F and 3S and has done it with 3T easily several times this year). I'm not asking much am I?


  9. #9
    rgirl181
    Guest

    Re: Jump Combos


    Welcome to GS, Rboi! What a great thread to start with, too--I love it:D And of course absolutely no offense to me--I just wish I'd thought of spelling my name Rgurl or Rgoil when I had the chance:smokin:

    BTW, ITA about 2/3 combos--I loved Midori's 2lp/3lp too. I think today that skaters don't do them because they're afraid they might look like a mistake, like they were trying to do a 3/3 and couldn't do it. But if they have it on their element sheet, it shouldn't be a problem. I think skaters get into ruts in terms of doing certain jumps and elements certain ways. I think there is a certain fear of being perceived as too different. It seems there is that odd tension between wanting to be original and wanting to be like everyone else at the same time. Also, I think the judges haven't been rewarding unique jump combos the way they should, eg, Jen Robinson. I think there is a wealth of creativity to be had in jumping. Perhaps some skater or skaters will come along who are very successful, like Yags and Plush, and start doing different things with jumps the way Yags and Plush have with footwork and the way Plush has with the 433. Perhaps then it will catch on.
    Rgoil

  10. #10
    DORISPULASKI
    Guest

    Re: Jump Combos


    Long ago in a land far away, the mandatory jump in the short program combination used to vary from year to year. I thought this was a great idea. This rule was the reason that in the battle of the Brians, both did a 3axel 2 loop. The 2 loop was the mandatory jump of the year.

    I thought it made a great combo!!

    I wish that they would bring this rule back.

    I also would like to see someone do a 2.5 flip and a 3.5 flip!
    (Peggy Fleming, as well as Toller used to do the 1.5 flip)

    dpp

  11. #11
    Joesitz
    Guest

    Re: Jump Combos


    doris - I remember seeing the 1-1/2 flip (often with a split) into a lunge and sitzspin. Very flowing and exciting when done well.

    Joe

  12. #12
    FetalAttraction
    Guest

    Re: Jump Combos


    For innovative jumping, look to the two Ruskies, Ilia Klimkin and Evgeny Plushenko. Klimkin is the first skater to do both a quad toe and a quad salchow in a competition. Recently at the NHK trophies, Klimkin did two camel spins in OPPOSITE directions, straight into a triple salchow. He does many other wacky jump entrances, too. Plushenko is another jump innovator. He was the first to do a quad toe/triple toe/double loop combo, the first to do a quad toe/triple toe/triple loop combo. At the Olympics, Plushy also did a triple axel/half loop/triple flip sequence.

  13. #13
    AY2006
    Guest

    Re: Jump Combos


    I think 2A-3R would be very difficult, and if it is done, it could get a high value. 2A-3T wouldn't get as much value as 3T-3T.

    I think the reason skaters use 3/2 combo as opposed to 2/3 especially in SP is that it's less risky. You are not certain about how much flow you get out of the first jump, and it's safer to count on the first jump. (This makes Midori's 2R-3R really remarkable.)

    I also hope there will be more combos with one foot axel, toeless Lutz, or Walley. They are not practiced because it's very hard to have multiple revolutions. Rather than spending time on those jumps, skaters will opt for 3/3s 3A or quads. I hope judges reward originality of those who attempt unconventional jump sequences. But it's difficult to even attempt it unless you are a very established skater.

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