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Thread: Discussion - Is Sasha's Skating Brittle or Fragile?

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancindiva03
    I'll be honest and tell you that according to my coach, my extension is just as good as Sasha's already.
    Nice for you to share your experience. What amazes me is how some fans keep up with the "Honestly wouldn't you love to have her extension?" or "I will bet my life that many skaters will trade their edges for her line" To quote Sandra Loosemore, skating is about edges (at least a big part is about edges), so as a skater will you give up your edges training just for the lines? Do you think a young aspiring skaters like Mao Asada will trade her triple axel for lines? IMO what is disproportional is the disproportional exaggeration about the importance of lines and extension claimed by some . Yeah, I know they will quote Dick and Peggy, I don't know how many times Dick and Peggy had criticized irina, "her extension is no where near Sasha Cohen". I am very sure Irina will trade her edges for line
    Last edited by gezando; 06-02-2005 at 11:37 PM.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancindiva03
    I'll be honest and tell you that according to my coach, my extension is just as good as Sasha's already. But I'll attribute that to my 18 years of ballet training prior to taking up skating! My spins aren't quite up to par, but hey I've only been skating 2.5 years so I guess that's okay. Did you bother to read my post, perfect edges are NOT the only think that count to me. But they are very important. But, I like ice dance better than freestyle so thats probably why edges are important to me. Good for you that you love Sasha, go on and tell the world. Its your opinion and that's fine with me. But don't think I'll ever change my opinion on her.
    Congratulations on your extension, not too many people can compare to Sasha in that area!!! I think extension is as important as edges for a free skater. Now for ice dance, edges are almost the most important thing. I happen to think all elements are important and that no skater is the best at it all.

    I don't write about Sasha to change anyones mind about her skating. Sorry, I thought I made that perfectly clear.

    If you are going to skate competively I hope to see you someday especially if you have extension as good as Sasha's. Keep working, I'm sure your spins will get there. Best wishes in your skating.
    Last edited by Peggy; 06-03-2005 at 12:23 AM.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by gezando
    Many disagree with you and think Cohen is no where near pretty as .....In fact according to a current GS poll, Tanith is kicking Cohen's butt

    Anyway what does being "pretty" has to do with ice skating a sports? Not surprise that a lot of my friends do not consider ice skating a sports, just beauty pageant on ice. If "pretty" is so important then, IMO Mai Asada should win Japanese nationals, and get a spot in the olys team, and she does not even have to skate, and be given an olympic gold.
    I meant that "pretty" is an adjective that I would use to describe Sasha's skating. Tanith's style is not "pretty" so much as, maybe, "splendid." Jenny Kirk (another strikingly lovely lady) is "sparkling."

    Mai Asada is "enchanting."

    MM

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by gezando
    IMO what is disproportional is the disproportional exaggeration about the importance of lines and extension claimed by some . Yeah, I know they will quote Dick and Peggy, I don't know how many times Dick and Peggy had criticized irina, "her extension is no where near Sasha Cohen". I am very sure Irina will trade her edges for line
    I agree that edges are key...there's not figure skating without them, right (i mean otherwise no curves, no edge jumps, spins etc). I also agree that superb edging makes the for overall superior presentation, flow, power (i.e. in stroking, cross overs etc), and potentially ice coverage.

    Now, not referring to gezando, but to other posters and just generally, I strongly DISAGREE with the idea that extension and lines mean nothing. I do think, that is my very own personal opinion, that good lines/balletic lines and great extension are stunningly beautiful...understanding full well that not all people would agree. But more importantly, I totally disagree with the 'gumby' attitudes (respectfully of course)...stretch/extension is never simply/only genetic and not 'freaky'. It requires constant work to maintain; strength/endurance to perform (particularly with the weights on the feet that are skates), and concentration to execute properly. Good extension can turn text book perfect moves into totally amazing WOW moves and that, to me, is cool. Key here too, though, is part of 'text book perfect' is proper edge.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peggy


    I don't get the darts and machine gun statement.
    Do you feel the mental illness statement was the machine gun???
    I'm saying this thread as a whole has been a healthy debate (with very few minor exceptions), but I still see you upset about "viscious comparisons". I'm baffled as to where the viscious comparisons are in any of the posts. I've seen a lot of posts about Sasha's exquisite line, beauty, balletic quality, flexibility and undeniable talent. I've seen counter-arguements that she two-foots jumps, is prone to being unfocused, inconsistent, not reaching out emotionally, and questionable jump technique that cause wobbly landings. That's an analysis of her skating, not attacks on Sasha herself. Where's the viscious comparisons? It's seems an out of proportion to me (i.e. machine gun).

    And in response to Kyla's post that "it can't be argued to the contrary and be taken seriously", I responded by saying such a view was scary, because it eliminated the possibility of debate. And then I posted my "dart" where I said that I appreciate Sasha's stunning positions and flexibility, but that emotionally she doesn't reach me. The (machine gun) response to my post was that "the only things that scares me is when you refuse to recognize other skaters attributes".
    Hello? Again, color me baffled. I didn't realize acknowledging Sasha's stunning positions and flexibility was a refusal to acknowledge other skaters attributes. An out of proportion response.

    And yes, suggesting someone has a pychiatric problem is a machine gun response to a dart-like point of view they don't agree with.

    All I'm saying is that this thread has been very balanced. So I get nervous when I read a generalization that poor Sasha is being attacked. The whole origin of this thread is to discuss our opinions about whether she is brittle or fragile. There's no blanket Sasha bashing on this thread to justify some of the wholesale "Sasha is always criticized". It's a debate-style question that was posed, so of course there will be many opinions. The greatest irony is that 95% of us (including those that wouldn't consider themselves Sasha fans) said she is neither brittle or fragile.

    Anyway, I wasn't going to post anymore on this subject. But you asked me to clarify what I meant, so hopefully I did. I'm done. Flame away!
    Last edited by Skate Sandee; 06-03-2005 at 08:03 AM.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peggy
    Congratulations on your extension, not too many people can compare to Sasha in that area!!! I think extension is as important as edges for a free skater. Now for ice dance, edges are almost the most important thing. I happen to think all elements are important and that no skater is the best at it all.

    I don't write about Sasha to change anyones mind about her skating. Sorry, I thought I made that perfectly clear.

    If you are going to skate competively I hope to see you someday especially if you have extension as good as Sasha's. Keep working, I'm sure your spins will get there. Best wishes in your skating.
    LOL the only way you'll ever see me is maybe at adult competitions, because I'm nearly 25 and just started skating a few yearrs ago, so I'm doing the adult track. Don't expect to see me at Nats or anything!

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancindiva03
    LOL the only way you'll ever see me is maybe at adult competitions, because I'm nearly 25 and just started skating a few yearrs ago, so I'm doing the adult track. Don't expect to see me at Nats or anything!
    Hey, I won't tell you how old I am but you're still very much a spring chicken to me. I wish I was 24 again and had some talent for skating. Best wishes

  8. #143
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    Question

    Peggy said
    "I don't get the darts and machine gun statement.
    Do you feel the mental illness statement was the machine gun???"
    Were you referring to my ADD comment? I don't know if you were, but to just clarify(in case you were), add isn't a mental illness.
    It's just little lack of focus. I should know, I get distracted easily, myself, lol. Nothing to be ashamed of. It is majorly annoying to start daydreaming in the middle of a conversation while someone's talking to you, but it's not a mental illness.
    I didn't mean what I said in a derogatory way towards her at all. I just want people to realize that it's hard to be consistent when your mind is trying to focus on something important, but it keeps jumping to other subjects. Alexei Y. said sometimes while he does jumps, his mind wanders. I would love to see Sasha's consistency improve, because she got help focusing. Then people would be quiet about it. Anyways, it was just an opinion. Not a fact about her.

    Annie(one of Sasha's #1 fans)

  9. #144
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    Jumping consistency is not easy to achieve for any lady skater. Some skaters could acieve for one season, and next season they could not. Some skaters could keep for a couple of years and left eligible quickly. Michelle is(I would say was) the only lady who can maintain a few years consistency at key events. But she can not keep the standard anymore. One or two jumps not putting in the program at nationls and worlds is much worse than falling on one jump. I just got a copy of Sasha's book. After reading I still feel she is a hard worker. Figure skating is a very demanding sport. If you are not 100 percent focused and put in 2 or 3 hours a day, the triples could be lost easily. Sasha's only problem is no matter what she's not as strong as Irina, Michelle, and many others. One thing I feel every body needs to realize that getting good edges is harder than getting triples. There are many skaters who can do all triples, but just very few skaters have great edges.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesslily
    . Sasha's only problem is no matter what she's not as strong as Irina, Michelle, and many others.
    No one stays at the top forever, there comes a time when a great champion will have to step down / off podium. But great champions achieve age appropriate greatness, e.g. Tara winning olys at 15, MK winning worlds at 15, Irina being a junior world medalist at 14. I agree with slutskayafan, Cohen is mentally fragile. She is at an age 20 going on 21 where she should be at the peak, and if indeed she is so gifted, or "God's gift to skating" claimed by some here, being beaten by a 25 y/o Irina is

    One thing I feel every body needs to realize that getting good edges is harder than getting triples. There are many skaters who can do all triples, but just very few skaters have great edges.
    I will settle with reasonably good edges, and noisy scratching sand paper rubbing edges skated to Paus des deux in Marshalls was

  11. #146
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    At 21, and after 6 years of Senior international competition, Sasha has still not won a National or World championship, despite the fact that she has many wonderful qualities as a skater. There are several reasons why this is true, among them emotional fragility, lack of competition nerves, and technical problems which may be due in part to the flexibility that makes her skating so pleasing to the eye.

    I think Sasha will finally achieve greatness as a pro. Once she doesn't have to face the rigors of competition and wanting so badly to be #1, she will finally skate with freedom and real feeling. Then and only then will we see the best of Sasha.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm
    At 21, and after 6 years of Senior international competition, Sasha has still not won a National or World championship, despite the fact that she has many wonderful qualities as a skater. There are several reasons why this is true, among them emotional fragility, lack of competition nerves, and technical problems which may be due in part to the flexibility that makes her skating so pleasing to the eye.

    I think Sasha will finally achieve greatness as a pro. Once she doesn't have to face the rigors of competition and wanting so badly to be #1, she will finally skate with freedom and real feeling. Then and only then will we see the best of Sasha.
    Although a fan of MK myself, but in Sasha's defence she was just "not born in the right time" (in chinese). Had FS run like old ways, the old skaters retired after each Olympics cycles, she'd be two time US champion and at least one time World Champion. That's not to say 'old skaters' should leave the rink to make way for new ones, or make excuses for one. A true champion would always find a way to rise to the occation no matter in what system they are in.

  13. #148
    Custom Title IDLERACER's Avatar
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    And now for an ispired change of pace, here are pictures of the four biggest mouthes in nature:

    MOUTH #1
    MOUTH #2
    MOUTH #3
    MOUTH #4

  14. #149
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    Mentle toughness is an important factor for competitive figure skating, but from my knowledge I haven't seen any obvious weakness of Sasha Cohen. Sasha landed her 2axel when she was 12 while Michelle landed all her triples by 12. The jumps needs years of practicing to master. Most Russion top skaters learned triples by 12 or 13.

  15. #150
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    I really don't care at what age a skater first lands an assortment of jumps. I do care when they land them in competition.

    There are at least six ladies at over 20 years of age in the forthcoming Olys trying to prove that age doesn't matter. If one of them wins, will we negate the win because of her learning the triple toe wally too late in life?

    Joe
    Last edited by Joesitz; 06-09-2005 at 06:17 AM.

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