Thanks for the words of support for me and Sasha. Mathman, I feel the same about the glorious Michelle. But in the end, the only opinions that count regarding Sasha are the judges, and 99% of the time they do get it right in spite of all the nonsense and political shenanigans that go on in the world of skating. We are just shooting the breeze so to speak.
Good for you that you can point your toes. If you make it to the top of the skating world and people start bashing you on message boards saying that what you do is easy, then I will come to your defense and explain that pointing toes is difficult and that balletic skating is beautiful.Originally Posted by dancindiva03
You misread my post. I was responding to mzheng's statement in post #56 that Angela has big jumps and great speed.
LOL this is getting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too serious! I will never ever make it to the top of the skating world...not even the adult division of skating! Seriously I was not bashing Sasha, just saying that it takes more than pointed toes and Gumby moves to impress me. She's just not my cup of tea.
ITA. Unfortunately people who refuse to bow and worship Sasha, and dare to speak that they are not impressed with Cohen were at the receiving end of tantrum throwing
[QUOTE=Fossi]Cohen will never have Carolina's speed, flow, and depth of edges. I think worlds was a toss up b/w the 2 for silver. bronze. I think judges do not get it 99percentg right re: Cohen. Prime example were the US judges placing above Sarah Hughes in nationals, and the international judges got it right by placing Hughes above Cohen.
Last edited by gezando; 05-27-2005 at 09:09 AM.
In the defence of Sasha, her edge quality improved a lot since SLC. Back then she basically skated on flat (from ppl who witness her skating in person at practices) but now she acheives edges by body lean. And don't forget we had 2 footed jumps queen as OGM. So what's so hurt Sasha got rewarded silvers....As long as judge panel accepted them. It diddn't matter double footed or cheated, as long as you stay vertical, they all worked. (though under different rules).
I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if i'm repeating. I'll just say that I disagree (repsectfully) with people who say she is JUST hyper-flexible, as if that doesn't take constant work, require strength, balance, concentration, timing, and let's remember skates are heavy too. And I think her posture, body line, and spins are really, really first rate and beautiful. But I also agree that her edges still need a lot of work, and people that see her live say she scratches the ice a lot (too much toe pick and flat), so clearly that would need much work....and then there is that something else: is it concentration, is it timing, is it nerve control i'm not sure...but the putting down a clean program. For the latter, I guess I do think of Sasha as somewhat Fragile (noting her physical strength)...something seems to rattle her in competition--but I also think Brittle the way I used to think of Maria B (not deep enough in the edge/knee). So...a little of both?
I do think that the last two Worlds were similiar for her...not in the medal she got per se, but in the way she was cleaner than ever (yes, with problems), and that maybe this last one was significant as Mzheng said in her standing up/staying vertical. That is a big deal for her, I think. And this year doing that with all the changes may really bode well for her future competitions; then again, like with so many other top (and amazing) skaters, we will really only know when the season unfolds.
Huh??? The most recent US OGM are Kristi, not a queen of 2 foot landing.Tara, did not 2 foot landing her jumps at all
Sarah Hughes did not 2 foot her landing her jumps, and at SLC she even fully rotated her jumps and 3/3.,7 triples fully rotated and no 2 foot landing .
Oksana 2 foot her triple toe at olys 1994. But with her balletic and dance qualities, I could see why judges rewarded her. (Cohen unlike Oksana is not balletic, Sasha is gymnastic instead) Oksana stayed vertical, Cohen's staying vertical percentage is not as high as Oksana's.
Last edited by gezando; 05-27-2005 at 05:06 PM.
So that's the point. Oksana two footed triples was accepted as the OGM. Nothing wrong with Cohen's double footed jumps were accepted as the Silver at the worlds. What's so unacceptable for Cohen? Huh??
Sasha is a good skater and has become the top competitor to topple Irina. This is fact, imo. I am not a Sashadora, and I have not seen her to my liking since Cleveland Nats until Moscow Worlds. And, in Worlds she just skated without pushing herself. She deserved her silver medal and if it weren't for those Bielman positions I think she might have taken gold. for some reason the ISU considers the Bielman spiral at a +3 whether or not it is without pains, and a balletic spiral as +1 only if extraordinary. Of course, Sasha has trouble sometimes staying on edge but she did as far as I could see at Worlds. Irina, too, has those 3x3s and compiles an enormous amount of points on the TCS. Irina's PCS score are inflated, imo. She does nothing for me and never has. If Sasha does not up her Tech, Carolina will be the top competitor to topple Irina. JMO
Joe
Huh?? I din't say Cohen's world silver was unacceptable, but I can see Fossi's point though. IMO, even Oksana 2 foot landing her triple toe, Oksana was able to win the OGM, b/c she was balletic, and danced on the ice. Oksana did not 2 foot any jumps in her world gold performance though. OTOH Cohen does not have Oksana's balletic qualities, or Irina's technical abiities, or Sarah Hugh's competitive mental toughness, therefore I can see that Cohen so far has been only good for world silver. Besides if I go with your theory of 2 foot and under rotated jumps are still standing up, then Oksana's percentage of stanidng up is much higher than Cohen's
BTW, mzheng, I don't know who you mean by an OGM as "queen of the 2 foot jump". During their competitive days none of the OGM were queen of the 2 foot landings. OTOH, if Cohen does not improve her jumping technique she maybe on her way to become a 2 foot jump landing royalty
Last edited by gezando; 05-28-2005 at 01:14 PM.
gezando - Why does a skater have to be balletic? Why can't a skater be good at what she does?
Joe
I have to agree with Joe on this one. Irina is Queen of inflated points and marks Sasha hasnt skated 2 perfect programs yet. Now where does that put the others.Even at Worlds all 3 programs were full of mistakes so Silver is a gift but then all the other skaters were making mistakes also. Lets not act like she was skating flawless programs. She was the best of a bad lot. Irina did skate a winning FS so that win was deserved.
I don't think a skater has to be balletic. F.S. is a competitive sports, IMO a skater who is athletic, and mentally tough jusually wins. Just look at Tara.
Last edited by gezando; 05-28-2005 at 10:29 PM.
If Sasha really does not have deep and great edges, that's not her fault, it's rather her coaches' fault. Skaters like Sasha, along with many lower levels' who have elegant body line and great extention are so easy to hide their weak edges, and their pleasant look can easily let their coaches blind to see the major problem. My daughter is one of this kind of skaters.
Sure lets blame the coaches again for Sasha's shortcomings. Sasha has been criticized for several years for her poor edges, I find it very hard to believe that if her fans noticed it, then her coaches could not have. If Sasha really does not have deep and great edges, then it IS her fault and she should work on it instead of disguising it with her gumby moves.
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