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Thread: Michael Weiss, the Grand Prix and the Olympics

  1. #16
    Tripping on the Podium
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    I think Michael Weiss should hire a new choreographer. His Led Zeppelin/Mettalica LP from last season was uninspiring and it did not do him any justice. Weiss may not have the classic line and extension of Russian skaters, but he has elegant upper carriage and his own artistic "style". IMHO, Weiss is one of the most expressive male skaters and with the right combination of athleticism and artistry, he can compete with the best in the world.

  2. #17
    Custom Title Jhar55's Avatar
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    Like I've said before I like Evan had my eye on him since Skate America and hopes he moves up at Nationals this year and get on the Oylmipc team.
    When I first saw him skate it remined me of the first time I saw Todd E. skate. He just has something about him. Go Evan

  3. #18
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelfsfan
    I think Michael Weiss should hire a new choreographer. His Led Zeppelin/Mettalica LP from last season was uninspiring and it did not do him any justice. Weiss may not have the classic line and extension of Russian skaters, but he has elegant upper carriage and his own artistic "style". IMHO, Weiss is one of the most expressive male skaters and with the right combination of athleticism and artistry, he can compete with the best in the world.
    I presume you are speaking of Russian Dance and Pairs teams. I agree that's something one could see and also in other teams. I would hardly think Irina (their best female skater, ever) as having classic line and her extension is limited to one acrobatic trick because her body allows for that.

    Yes, I think everyone thinks Michael needs choreography that shows his speed, flow and line because he has these fundamentals.

    1od

  4. #19
    Da' Spellin' Homegirl Grgranny's Avatar
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    Yes, choreography stinks there. I guess no one has come up with the solution to do it without making his wife angry. Tough spot.

  5. #20
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    When Weiss goes pro, I fear that he will become a trick skater. He has his tornado move and his freedom blades. At least joining a show means that he'll be able to get input from other choreographers.

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    Mikey seems to be in touch with what is being said on the message boards (at least he addressed a lot of issues in the Goldenskate interview). He should tell his wife that he's going to get another choreographer so he can grow. If she loved him, she would want what's best for his skating b/c her choreo has been severely criticized for the past few years (by fans and by judges from the way his standing has plummetted). Mikey is extremely talented is it's unfortunate the way his skating has been going.

  7. #22
    cranky girl guinevere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyang
    When Weiss goes pro, I fear that he will become a trick skater. He has his tornado move and his freedom blades.
    Become???

  8. #23
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    Tricks

    Shame one of his tricks was not a clean quad. Remember when we were promised a quad lutz earlier in his career?

    Linny

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linny
    Shame one of his tricks was not a clean quad. Remember when we were promised a quad lutz earlier in his career?

    Linny
    Well, whether having a quad or not, it does not bother me, LOL. I have seen Michael as a very enjoyable skater since I saw his performances in Nagano Olympics. Hoping very much to see his skating in Turin, too!!!

  10. #25
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Apart from the choreography issues, Weiss should also stop including "gimmicky" moves (ie "Mike Pike", freedom blades move etc) in his programs and concentrate on constructing a program that will showcase his strengths. Weiss has always struck me as a dynamic and emotive skater, so he should pick music that is both powerful and passionate (Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto No. 1, Op. 1, first movement comes to mind) as this kind of music will allow him to catch the attention of both audiences and judges from the first note. The Henry V SP from last season was only marginally better than his LP.

    I believe Weiss successfully landed a quad lutz at Trophee Lalique 2002, though sadly it has let him down ever since then. I would suggest that he abandon the quad lutz in favor of landing one (or possibly two) quad toes. He landed one beautifully during SP warmups at the Portland Nationals, shame it eluded him during the actual competition.

  11. #26
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I believe Michael landed a full rotation quad sometimes but the landing was two footed. How many points does he get for that attempt under the CoP and how how does it affect the GOE?

    I've also noticed that he has underrotated the quad and still two footed it. I presume he gets zilch for that.

    Joe

  12. #27
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    I believe Michael landed a full rotation quad sometimes but the landing was two footed. How many points does he get for that attempt under the CoP and how how does it affect the GOE?

    I've also noticed that he has underrotated the quad and still two footed it. I presume he gets zilch for that.

    Joe
    At Portland Nationals, Michael's quad toe in the LP was definitely double-footed. Not sure how many points it would be worth under CoP though, perhaps someone who could care to enlighten us all?

    The triple axel is definitely a more consistent jump for Michael, as he landed all three planned axels (SP and LP) at Nationals. It's such a shame that he is having consistency problems in his jumps at this stage in his eligible career; when he gets it right, his jumps have good height, tight rotations and beautiful running edges coming out of them.

  13. #28
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Accoding to the ISU scale of values

    http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf

    a quad Lutz has a base value of 11.0, and a quad toe has a base value of 9.0.

    A two-footed landing is supposed to be an automatic -2 GOE, according to the ISU protocols

    http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf

    So in principle a two-footed quad Lutz (if everything else is OK) would count exactly the same as a clean quad toe, at least on the technical side.

    I don't think that Michaels quad Lutz in the 2002 Trophee Lalique was ratified, under the old judging system. If it was two-footed it would not have officially gone into the record books. I don't think anyone has done an official quad Lutz yet. I think Plushenko practiced it, but then had to scale back his quads altogether because of injuries.

    Mathman

  14. #29
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Thanks for looking that up MM...

    Also there was a previous question about under rotation. If the jump is more than 1/4 turn under rotated, it is supposed to be downgraded. (i.e. a triple rather than quad) In the case of a under rotated quad lutz called a triple, the base value plummets from 11 to 6.

    I'm wondering now if the -2 GOE for 2 footed landings has been properly applied this past season, or if it's been applied like the automatic -3 GOE for obvious, severe edge changes on lutzes and flips. (meaning, not applied!)

    If anyone can recall specific events where a particular skater clearly 2-footed a particular jump, I will be happy to dig through the score sheets and report back whether the -2 GOE is being applied with any consistency to 2-foots.

    DG

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggygirl
    I'm wondering now if the -2 GOE for 2 footed landings has been properly applied this past season, or if it's been applied like the automatic -3 GOE for obvious, severe edge changes on lutzes and flips. (meaning, not applied!)

    If anyone can recall specific events where a particular skater clearly 2-footed a particular jump, I will be happy to dig through the score sheets and report back whether the -2 GOE is being applied with any consistency to 2-foots.
    Also keep in mind the following:

    "First a judge evaluates the quality of an element (e.g. +1), then deducts for errors (e.g. -3) to obtain the final grade (e.g. +1-3= -2)"

    So it's possible that a -3 deduction was taken for a severe change of edge even if the actual GOE was -2, or -2 take if the actual GOE was -1. (Now that Bobek and S. Hughes are out of the picture, I think -2 is the most we'd see for this among the current elite skaters.)

    "land on two feet" is listed under the -2 GOE criteria, but "touch down with
    one foot or one hand" is listed under -1. Commentators and fans often use the phrase "two-footed" to refer to the touchdown error as well as the (less common at the elite level) weight-on-both-feet landing.

    So it's possible that an otherwise good jump in which the free toe just happens to touch the ice would actually deserve a 0 GOE.

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