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Thread: Michael Weiss, the Grand Prix and the Olympics

  1. #31
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=gkelly] So it's possible that an otherwise good jump in which the free toe just happens to touch the ice would actually deserve a 0 GOE.[/QUOTE
    I can accept that as long as the progam continues without hesitation. It would be what is called a 'brush' in ballet.

    Joe

  2. #32
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    I presume you are speaking of Russian Dance and Pairs teams. I agree that's something one could see and also in other teams. I would hardly think Irina (their best female skater, ever) as having classic line and her extension is limited to one acrobatic trick because her body allows for that.

    Yes, I think everyone thinks Michael needs choreography that shows his speed, flow and line because he has these fundamentals.

    1od
    Yes, the list of Russian mens skaters with beautiful extension and bodyline would include Viktor Petrenko, Alexei Urmanov, Ilia Kulik, Artur Dmitriev and Anton Sikharulidze, with the late Sergei Grinkov (God bless his soul) right at the top of the list. Michael doesn't have the height (he's only 5'9") or the ideal torso to leg ratio, so he has to work harder in terms of presentation to "finish" his moves in order to attain that kind of extension and line on the ice.

    I rewatched both his programs from last season, and what struck me was how he came across as tentative and lacking in conviction in terms of "selling" them to the judges and audience. Also, Michael appeared to lack the speed and "fire", especially in his freeskate, which is so uncharacteristic of him (one need only watch his 2003 US Nationals LP, where he was buoyant and expressive, despite falling on his quad Lutz).

  3. #33
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    Wore him downq

    Maybe his kids wore him down... speaking for myself, I can say I surely wore MY parents down.

    Any other eligible skaters with kids? Alexander Abt, Tatiana Navka come to mind. They have one child, right?

    What about top athletes in other sports? Think it affects their "fire"?

    Linny

  4. #34
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    I remember reading in a French article that Eric Millot had moved out of his "conjugal home" the week before French Nationals in 1995 or 96 because his daughter was teething and it was hard for him to get enough sleep.

  5. #35
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly
    "Land on two feet" is listed under the -2 GOE criteria, but "touch down with one foot or one hand" is listed under -1. Commentators and fans often use the phrase "two-footed" to refer to the touchdown error as well as the (less common at the elite level) weight-on-both-feet landing.

    So it's possible that an otherwise good jump in which the free toe just happens to touch the ice would actually deserve a 0 GOE.
    Thanks for explaining that, GKelly. I was wondering why a "brush" would be more severely penalized than putting a hand down. But actually landing boom on both feet would, as Joe says, upset the flow of the program.

    As far as I can tell, Weiss essentially always two-foots his quad attempts. In fact, his technique is so consistent that it almost looks like he is doing it on purpose. If he could perfect a true two-footed quad Lutz, with full rotations but with a two-foot or even hand down landing, he would still garner a pile of points for the effort.

    Mathman

  6. #36
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Yup, Michael has often just boom two footed quads but there were a few occasions that it was a 'touch'. I remember Dickie commenting on one in a competition where Michael just did that and he gave the slomo look because the rotations were there and it looked clean but he 'touched with one foot'. Of course, the fans shouted two footed landings.

    It's time for him to get some credit for the air rotations!

    I was thinking of good line and extension in Men's Division over the years and I agree with Michaelfsfan's list of Russians. Out of the West, young man, I could add John Curry, Kurt Browning, Johnny Weir, Randy Garner and Sands from Pairs - first name escapes me, and I would throw in Todd Eldridge. All skaters take dance lessons where stretch is part of the warm-up exercise. Turning out the knees and pointing toes is deriguer(sp). Long legged guys have an advantage for viewing but short legged guys also have the requisite knees turned out and toes pointed - or should have. It was a MUST in school figures.

    Joe
    Last edited by Joesitz; 06-16-2005 at 04:31 PM.

  7. #37
    Joey Votto Fangirl KwanFan1212's Avatar
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    Sands from Pairs - first name escapes me,
    That would be the wonderful Todd Sand. I've always loved him and Jenni Meno. I met them in Portland and they are both just the nicest people.

    Anyway, Mike's quad never bothered me as much as his triple axels do because I've seen him totally blow those axels a lot more than I've seen him blow quads. With the quad, he would normally at least two foot it but stay upright. His axels have always made me nervous because they just never seem to have consistancy and he's all over the place in landing, falling, splatting, etc. That could just be my opinion but I definitely think he should work on his axel more than the quad as far as jumps go. And I still totally agree that he needs a new choreographer.

  8. #38
    Matt Savoie~Soul Skater CzarinaAnya's Avatar
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    I think Matt is in his 7th year of college(?), so I think that's' why he hasn't been in that many comps lately. With this olympic year coming up, I really hope he gets all the time he needs to focus on his skating. I would love to see his full potential be realized this coming season.

  9. #39
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzarinaAnya
    I think Matt is in his 7th year of college(?), so I think that's' why he hasn't been in that many comps lately. With this olympic year coming up, I really hope he gets all the time he needs to focus on his skating. I would love to see his full potential be realized this coming season.
    I guess that means he's working on a Phd? That doesn't have to be rushed, so he will have time. Like to see his full potential.

    Joe

  10. #40
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    According to Blades on Ice, Matt graduated from college (Bradley) in 2002 with a degree in political science. He has been accepted into Cornell law school.

    "He is planning to delay his entry so he can continue (skating) through the Olympic season. 'If things don't work out with my skating, my career is all in place,' says Savoie..."

    Mathman

  11. #41
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    I read Matt was working on a master's in urban planning, which he must have completed. I guess a law degree would also be of help.

  12. #42
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    I'm getting these skaters all confused...was Matt in urban planning or was that Jeff Buttle??

  13. #43
    In love with the axel!
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    Quote Originally Posted by emma
    I'm getting these skaters all confused...was Matt in urban planning or was that Jeff Buttle??
    I'm pretty sure Matt did his masters in urban planning, because I remember hearing that on tv at Nats, and thinking that was really cool (because my MPA concentration was urban planning )

  14. #44
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    Matt was urban planning. I think Jeff is in chemical engineering, but I'm not 100% sure.

  15. #45
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    I really like Michael's older programs. The programs I saw at 2004 and 2005 Nationals were just not as good as his previous programs. I know Brian Wright who did some of Michael's older programs passed away, but he needs to find a real choreographer. Michael has nice line and extension but at Nationals this year he was slow and tentative. I'm hoping he can come up with one last hurrah for the coming year and at least be really happy with his programs. I don't know if he can medal without a clean quad, but it would be great to see him do a good clean program with great footwork and maybe some interesting jump entrances.

    Maureen

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