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Thread: Why is it so hard for them to see themselves?

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    Da' Spellin' Homegirl Grgranny's Avatar
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    Why is it so hard for them to see themselves?

    I'm talking about those skaters that disagree with their scores such as Irina when she hasn't done all that great and thinks she should have won. Or Sale & P. & Surya. I've noticed quite a few times that some skaters think they should have won and we know better, and they just don't see it. Maybe this is hard for me to understand since I always think I am not nearly as good with what I do than others.

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    Well,

    It's kind of like those people on American Idol (or any other singing show) who think they're good, but really are not. They just need a "reality check", somehow. But I think that most other people in their "inner circle" TELL them that they're good, when the majority of the outer circle disagree.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Granny - I understand what you are saying and I could agree with you 100 per cent but you know me, and you know what I think of judges. I just can not suck up some of their scores. Most of them, however, are good. but one more cheat and I'm out of figure skating.

    In Irina's case or in any skater's case, when sitting in the K&C and disagreeing with the judges is not an unusual thing. And sometimes, fans disagree when the judges give out gifts and they do on occasion.

    If there was some way, the dumb commentators could get to the judges and really ask good questions about why they gave GOEs high for that 'crap' the skater did, etc. Maybe things would get better. But how does the public get to the judges rationale? So many posters in forums just assume things, imo.

    Joe

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    Da' Spellin' Homegirl Grgranny's Avatar
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    The Idol answer hit the mark. That's just what I mean. Some (most) of those people are so bad and think they're great. Hard for me to understand.

    And the judging is a different thing altogether. Makes you wonder how they live with themselves.

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    Expanding on things a little, I think that people telling them over and over again (even if it's just a couple of people) that they are good at something gives them more and more "self-confidence" in said ability (or lack thereof). So when reality hits, it gets difficult for them to accept another view.

    In terms of ice skating, I think that either certain skaters feel they should be rewarded for their due rather than what they just performed, or they think the judges can't see their ability to do whatever they think they're good at. But it can be a rather complicated issue as a topic like this would require a LOT of speculation and reading of skaters' minds and personalities.

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    I think it comes down to the fact that some skaters simply have the nerve to voice their displeasure rather than just giving the It means the same thing just different ways of communicating their displeasure.

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    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    not sure about Irina... Surya was definitely overboard in her protest, IMHO...

    as for Jamie and David, I think it was more exhaustion and adrenaline than anything else... when you're going non-stop for a full season you're tired and sometimes you can't help but cry...

    then again what's the difference between that and Katarina Witt showing off in practices?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grgranny
    I'm talking about those skaters that disagree with their scores such as Irina when she hasn't done all that great and thinks she should have won. Or Sale & P. & Surya. I've noticed quite a few times that some skaters think they should have won and we know better, and they just don't see it. Maybe this is hard for me to understand since I always think I am not nearly as good with what I do than others.
    IMO, It is called the mentality of a successful person. I don't think it is restricted to skaters. There are alot of S/Ps and Suryas out there in the workplace, schools etc. The one thing they all have in common is that they don't think they are perfect per se but they know they are great at what they do best.

    I think as fans, we get so caught up in our discussions of who won or shouldn't have won, why some skaters don't see it and forget that these skaters go into the competition knowing very well their faults and also what they do best. They do not doubt themselves.
    Last edited by bleuchick; 06-17-2005 at 09:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grgranny
    I'm talking about those skaters that disagree with their scores such as Irina when she hasn't done all that great and thinks she should have won. Or Sale & P. & Surya. I've noticed quite a few times that some skaters think they should have won and we know better
    S & P? Are you talking about SLC? Erm, I think what quite a few of us know is that THEY were the best that night. So of course they were upset.

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    Well I don't think its fair to use those three skaters as examples, as many elite skaters have questioned their marks at one point in their career.
    I also don't think its fair to use the American idol analogy, because those skaters you(Grgrany) mentioned above are THAT GOOD.
    I don't think we'll ever know why skaters question their marks, maybe they felt they deserved better and its okay for them to speak out, nothing wrong with that. The question at hand is "why is it so hard for them to see themselves"? well its not hard, those skaters really do believe they deserved more then they got, or otherwise they wouldn't question the marks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grgranny
    I'm talking about those skaters that disagree with their scores such as Irina when she hasn't done all that great and thinks she should have won. Or Sale & P. & Surya. I've noticed quite a few times that some skaters think they should have won and we know better, and they just don't see it. Maybe this is hard for me to understand since I always think I am not nearly as good with what I do than others.
    Different upbring, something like RD said.

    IMO, there is difference between judge marks in K&C and carry over the complains to next competetion, next-next competetion,....not to mention curse judges as 'Pig'. Funny Grgranny you should start this thread. Just couple of days ago I re-watched the tape of 2002 Worlds, heard some complaining again, thought the exactly the samething as you.
    Last edited by mzheng; 06-18-2005 at 10:02 AM.

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    I think with S/P it was also the crowd response. I also think a lot has to do with the people around the skaters.

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    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    Hmm...Okay, I am taking offense at the mention of Sale & Pelletier here, unless I have missed something. Every skater questions his or her marks by judges at one time or another. Some skaters are better at hiding their feelings better than others. Figure skaters are human beings they are not machines.

    Often, they have been undermarked by the judges for one reason or another so question what went wrong. Maybe nothing did. With the old judging system it was easier to tell when a judge undermarked a skater.

    You ask "why is it so hard for them to see themselves?" Have you ever skated in front of an audience and a pannel of judges? I have. It's very stressful. Even seasoned pros give into their nerves from time to time. When a skater is out there on the ice in front of the whole country and a pannel of judges anything can happen. They may have skated their program perfectly a hundred times in practice and have it down pat in their minds, but once out in the limelight anything can go awry. It also goes by very quickly and a skater does not have time to assess the program until its over. It may have felt right to them or not. They can usually tell when they have had a bad skate and can understand why they are receiving lower marks.

    I don't question the right of any skater to wonder about a judges mark. They earned it when they stepped out on the ice.

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    Personally, I think some of those remarks are made under the influence of adrenaline and endorphins. After all, they just came off the ice. The heart is pumping overtime (and Irina needs to use her puffer -- doesn't she have asthma?) and the hormones are working at maximum strength. It's a theory...

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    Custom Title merrywidow's Avatar
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    In the case of Surya Bonaly, I always felt sorry for her & could understand her disappointment with the silver medal. She had received high marks from the judges from the time she began competing as a Sr. just because she could land triple jumps. Her technique & her presentation both were dreadful but she still was scored in the 5.6 to 5.9 range on both. Each year she competed she moved up until she reached the point where she felt a clean skate would win the gold medal. Didn't happen. Especially in '94 after the Olympics (she placed 4th) the 3 medalists did not go on to compete at Worlds. Surya assumed she would win. Yuka Sato took the gold after having been 5th at the '94 Olympics.

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