How much more difficult is the 'Tano lutz than a regular lutz? | Golden Skate

How much more difficult is the 'Tano lutz than a regular lutz?

76olympics

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
I was watching the '88 Olympic free again (boy- I remember that broadcast)--and I wondered how much more difficult the arm in air lutz is than the regular version? I can't recall seeing other skaters doing this --though maybe it has that trademark feel for Boitano. I know it is harder because commentators usually say this--but I wondered if the skaters here know how much harder.

Also-is it my imagination or does he throw up his arms in exhilaration during that final spin? It looks spontaneous and not like part of the regularly scheduled program to me. Very endearing!
 

SusanBeth

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
If you listen carefully, the arms go up right on the beat. I think it must have been an accent to the music.

Considering how hard a lutz is to begin with, varying the arm positions must have been incredibly difficult. He can't use the arms to help rotate. Plus, with one arm extended out, the revolutions would have been slowed a bit. It's pretty amazing.

I love that spread eagle!
 
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SingAlto

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
RealtorGal said:
I hate that Tano Lutz. It always looks so stupid to me. :p

Just one Gal's opinion. :biggrin:

What a shocking revelation inasmuch as you don't like Brian either. :sheesh:
 

dlkksk8fan

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I like the "tano lutz". I would assume It is more difficult to do. I wonder if anyone has done a jump with both arms in the air high above the head.
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
76olympics said:
I was watching the '88 Olympic free again (boy- I remember that broadcast)--and I wondered how much more difficult the arm in air lutz is than the regular version? I can't recall seeing other skaters doing this --though maybe it has that trademark feel for Boitano. I know it is harder because commentators usually say this--but I wondered if the skaters here know how much harder.

Also-is it my imagination or does he throw up his arms in exhilaration during that final spin? It looks spontaneous and not like part of the regularly scheduled program to me. Very endearing!

It is more difficult because instead of having both arms close to the body, one arm is up in the air, which makes it more difficult to complete the rotations. Boitano was the most consistent with it, and the first one to do this (hence the name 'Tano Lutz). However, a few other skaters have landed it.... Vyacheslav Zagoradniuk (Ukraine), and Ilia Kulik (I have seen him do this just once). There is at least one more, but I can't remember the name right now. Boitano did it the best.

Irina Slutskaya does the double axel with a 'tano' position, and I think last year she did a triple toe with that position. I don't think a lady has done a tano lutz (triple).

Vash
 

RealtorGal

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
SingAlto said:
What a shocking revelation inasmuch as you don't like Brian either. :sheesh:
I've seen other skaters do it, too, and it looks just as silly and pretentious. :p
 

dr.frog

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Vash01 said:
There is at least one more, but I can't remember the name right now.

It's become one of Ryan Jahnke's signature moves in recent years. He once said that when he was learning it he kept hitting himself in the head, but now it is no more difficult for him than a regular lutz.
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
In theory, difficult variations are only rewarded if the rest of the jump is a +2. I think that there should be either different jump levels to reward entrances and/or variations or a specific + point bonus for the different types.
 

sk8er1964

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
dlkksk8fan said:
I wonder if anyone has done a jump with both arms in the air high above the head.

I can do singles that way, and I have seen doubles done that way. Haven't seen a triple done that way, but then again I only know two people in real life that have consistent triples ;)
 

icenut84

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
76olympics said:
I was watching the '88 Olympic free again (boy- I remember that broadcast)--and I wondered how much more difficult the arm in air lutz is than the regular version?
<snip>
Also-is it my imagination or does he throw up his arms in exhilaration during that final spin? It looks spontaneous and not like part of the regularly scheduled program to me. Very endearing!

Doing a jump with one arm over the head is more difficult because, like the others have said, it means you can't pull it close to your chest, which makes the rotations more difficult. It also, I imagine, involves slightly different timing, and is a different feel to get used to than the standard arm movements that would be second nature by then. Possibly also has something to do with the fact that it kind of elongates the body - i.e. adds height, which makes any jump more difficult (hence the reason why many successful skaters, particularly ladies, tend to be on the small side). I like it though - Boitano's was excellent. Slutskaya also does this arm movement on her 2axels sometimes, which I think looks great.

I think it's quite tricky to learn/get used to - a while back I saw a couple of skaters at my rink playing around with them - the guy can land a 3axel, and he was doing a couple of 1axels with the arm over his head. The girl can do 2axels I think, but couldn't really manage the 1axel with the arm.

Re: the arm movement in Boitano's final spin in Calgary - that's probably my fave moment of that performance!! Maybe the arms raising was choreographed anyway to fit the music, but he did it with such a flourish and with such a joyful look on his face that it's really nice to see! :) It's the kind of flourish that makes you realise how good the performance was, if you hadn't realised.
 

76olympics

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Thanks for all of the feedback. It makes sense that rotation would be easier with both arms close to the body.

BTW-the 'tano lutz isn't my favorite move. It isn't even my favorite Boitano move (those would be the death drop and spread eagle. Those are awesome! I think his height (really tall for a skater) adds to the effect on both of those. Also, he can hold the spread eagle for so long with such extension.I


He isn't my favorite (that would be Paul Wylie, Katia G, Ilia Kulik, G and G and B and S)--but I have a lingering fondness for him because he is about a month younger than me. I really followed his career because of that. And-that was just a breathtaking performance. We were all jumping around the TV.

Icenut--you caught just what I wanted to say about the arm movement in the spin. The expression on his face is just unforgettable and it makes it look spontaneous even if it wasn't. That would be my favorite moment of that performance too.
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think it was a pro competition....Boitano decided to put in a Tano lutz and a regular lutz. He wasn't sure if he would be successful with the regular one since it had been years since he had done one and it could really affect his timing.


It is harder to complete a Tano. The force of moving your arms in helps with the rotaion. With one arm above throughout the jump, you don't have full momentum. Even when spinning, it would be harder to gain speed if you had one arm up in the air and had just one to pull in.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
dlkksk8fan said:
I like the "tano lutz". I would assume It is more difficult to do. I wonder if anyone has done a jump with both arms in the air high above the head.

I have never seen it but i think i have read that Midori Ito did a 2loop with both arms above her head in an SP one season when the 2 loop was a required jump in the short. That would be very hard because you would have a tendency to raise your shoulders on the take off as you lift your arms which usually kills the height in a jump.

Ant
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Vash01 said:
It is more difficult because instead of having both arms close to the body, one arm is up in the air, which makes it more difficult to complete the rotations. Boitano was the most consistent with it, and the first one to do this (hence the name 'Tano Lutz). However, a few other skaters have landed it.... Vyacheslav Zagoradniuk (Ukraine), and Ilia Kulik (I have seen him do this just once). There is at least one more, but I can't remember the name right now. Boitano did it the best.

Irina Slutskaya does the double axel with a 'tano' position, and I think last year she did a triple toe with that position. I don't think a lady has done a tano lutz (triple).

Vash

I like the arm variation that Irina does (her arm is bent at the elbow so that her hand is over the top of her head) i think it looks pretty but i think its easier than having the arm straight since the hand is over the centre line around which she is rotating.

Ant
 
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