Two edge questions

1. Is this a Lutz? Is it a good outside edge?

http://members.aol.com/sk8pics/03nats5_35.jpg

2. How is Sasha going to land when she comes down? Will she land on one foot with a gliding edge. It looks impossible.

http://www.rickrickman.com/users/RickRickman739/images/RickRickman73953797.jpg

Thanks to you skaters and skating experts.

MM

If number one were actually Michelle going into a lutz, then yes, the edge would be a pretty good one as long as she kept it that way all the way up until the toe pick lifts her off the ice (not that she ever flutzes or prerotates or anything-- and it's nothing against her, pretty much everyone has issues with the latter technique issue )

I don't know if you are just being funny or honestly asking, but the first picture is Michelle's set up for a 2axel.

Michelle is not going into a lutz. If she was she would be on her left outside edge.

Yes Sasha will land on one foot, the left one.

Michelle appears to be setting up for a single or double axel. She is turning from back to front -- and yes, she is on a good back outside edge on her right foot.

If she were going into a lutz she wouldn't be turning her head back where she was going,

though the image is blurry, the following is an excellent lutz setup edge...

lutz edge

Depends on how the negative was printed. It could be an excellent entrance into a 2A as we see it, or if the negative was turned around and the print would then make an excellent lutz entrance.

In picture 2, the legs of the split are thrust forward which creates the Russian Split. The legs are not under the body. Sasha normally does a very delicate one. This is a poor photo of Sasha's Russian Split.

Sasha will land this jump as she normally lands her Russian Split forward left toe pick right stroke.

Joe

I think in first one Michelle is going into her 2Axel. Not the lutz, with Lutz her right foot will be the pick in foot. The back outside edge should be in left foot.

IMO, Michelle's 2003 season was the best she skated as far as SKATING went. Very 'profesional' appearance, by this I mean when she setup jumps or skating around the rink she never had to look back to check out the distance during her backward skating. That was first season I saw her doing that. I have never seen any skater dose this. They always has to look back checking the distance or something no reason. But by 2004 season she was back to her old self, has to look back during backwards skating when setting up the jumps etc.

In the first one Michelle is going into a double axel. I'm almost positive.

CDMM1991 said:

In the first one Michelle is going into a double axel. I'm almost positive.

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Yup. She's preparing to step forward.

dlkksk8fan said:

Yes Sasha will land on one foot, the left one.

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She will touch down on the toe of the left foot and glide forward on the right. It happens very quickly.

Thanks, everybody. So, is this right? Michelle is not yet on her take-off edge. She will swing her left leg around and skate forward on a left outside edge, then pick with her right toe?

I think the double Axel is Michelle's nicest jump. She did four in a row in the group finale in COI. IIRC Kurt Browning also did four in a row in his "Don't Fence Me In" number.

If Sasha lands on her toe-pick, what stops her momentum? Does she absorb the landing by a deep knee, or is a huge stroke with her right leg enough to keep her upright? This jump looks to me like it is just as hard as jumps like the loop and Salchow. But I have never seen a skater actually fall on a split jump.

I wish Michelle would brig back her split falling leaf onto a change edge spread eagle that she did in the East of Eden exhibition (world pro) program.

Sk8mate, thanks for the picture of the Lutz entry. Is that Carolina? That is a great-looking edge. So, from that position she is about to use her arms to swing around counter-clockwise (as viewed from above), which is the opposite of the way her blade is arcing, right?

I can see why this jump is so hard. I can also see why the skaters want to do it in the Lutz corner, as far away from the judges as possible. The position of the body is really quite ungainly from that head-on view. When we see it on TV (more or less from the same position as the judges), we get a three-quarters back view, then she truns into the camera on the landing. The element looks both athletic and graceful from that perspective, IMHO.

MM

Mathman said:

Thanks, everybody. So, is this right? Michelle is not yet on her take-off edge. She will swing her left leg around and skate forward on a left outside edge, then pick with her right toe?

IIf Sasha lands on her toe-pick, what stops her momentum? Does she absorb the landing by a deep knee, or is a huge stroke with her right leg enough to keep her upright? This jump looks to me like it is just as hard as jumps like the loop and Salchow. But I have never seen a skater actually fall on a split jump.

MM

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On the axel entry, there is no pick. Just a rocking motion off the left outside edge. The jump does leave from the left toe pick as it's that rocking motion towards the toe that give the jump it's lift.

On the split, it's the huge stroke with the right leg as you mentioned. If you don't change to the right edge quick enough your weight gets too far forward and you fall flat on your face. Only us less experienced skaters seem to suffer that fall....

She will touch down on the toe of the left foot

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I should of said toe of foot, but still the left foot. It does happen quickly.

Mathman said:

1. Is this a Lutz? Is it a good outside edge?

http://members.aol.com/sk8pics/03nats5_35.jpg

2. How is Sasha going to land when she comes down? Will she land on one foot with a gliding edge. It looks impossible.

http://www.rickrickman.com/users/RickRickman739/images/RickRickman73953797.jpg

Thanks to you skaters and skating experts.

MM

Click to expand...

In number 1 - it looks like michelle is setting up her double axel - she's on the RBO preparatory edge (not the LBO preparatory edge for the lutz). Alternatively she might (although i'm farely sure she's not ) be about to step on the LFO edge and instead of the axel do a LFO three turn and then do a salchow, but from memory she does quite a straight entry to her salchow and checks her arms hard to the right on the RBO preparotry edge for it.

In number 2 Sasha's doing one of her amazing split jumps...these usually (but i can't lay my life down on how sasha does it) take off with the entrance for a flip (LBI edge right toe assist) then land on the Left toe pick with an immediate push onto a RFI edge with the RFI three turn and a nice smooth running RBO edge in the landing position.

Ant

Mathman said:

Thanks, everybody. So, is this right? Michelle is not yet on her take-off edge. She will swing her left leg around and skate forward on a left outside edge, then pick with her right toe?

Click to expand...

No not quite - the picture is of the set up for her double axel not the lutz. She's on a RBO edge and will step onto the LFO edge on a very bent knee and rock up from the back of the blade up to the toe pick and lift off. If she was setting up her lutz she'd either be on a LBO edge with her shoulders checked to the right or the other way she does this is to skate a very shallow LFI edge into a LFI mohawk (which a turn that changes direction and foot but not edge so she'l go from being on LFI edge to a RBI edge) cross her left foot in front of the right on a deep outside edge (LBO edge) then pick in.

Mathman said:

Sk8mate, thanks for the picture of the Lutz entry. Is that Carolina? That is a great-looking edge. So, from that position she is about to use her arms to swing around counter-clockwise (as viewed from above), which is the opposite of the way her blade is arcing, right?

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I don't think that is carolina - i don't think its a famous skater...from memory (but i could be wrong!) doens't caroline flutz quite a bit...plus she s jumps the other way round so she'd be on her other foot! There aer quite a few different techniques with the arms on the lutz - the US girls tend to use the one that you can find described int he Petkevich book where - in the check you hold your right arm back and left arm forward and as you pick in your arms swap round in an exaggerated walking motion and then pull in which i think gives the jupm a slight delay but a little bit more lift, there's the throw your arms round in the other direction when you pick in which is quite sloppy i think but lots of skaters do it, then there's the more European way which Mishin teaches on all of the jumps iof keeping the shoulders satable as possible and bring the left arm straight back into your body and punch your right hand round to meet the left hand in at your chest.


Ant

antmanb said:

I don't think that is carolina - i don't think its a famous skater...from memory (but i could be wrong!) doens't caroline flutz quite a bit...plus she s jumps the other way round so she'd be on her other foot!

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You're right that that picture is not Carolina, as she rotates clockwise. But Carolina does NOT flutz - she has a beautiful outside edge on her lutz. And also a good inside edge on her flip - she's one of the few skaters these days that can do those two jumps with the correct edges (and very well too).