Axel in both directions | Golden Skate

Axel in both directions

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Another edge question. :)

There is a little blurb in the new International Figure Skating magazine about Don Jackson. It says that he not only made history by doing the first triple Lutz in competition, at Worlds in 1962, but also that he was the "only skater of his time to land the double Axel in both directions."

Does this mean that he could do this jump off either leg? Or is there an outside edge Axel that rotates one way and an inside edge Axel that rotates the other way?

The way the sentence is worded it makes it seem that Jackson was not necessarily the first to do this. I know Dick Button was the first to do a double Axel. Could he do it "both ways?" Or Hayes Alan Jenkins?

I read somewhere that the first year Lori Nichol skated with John Curry's show, the choreography called for her to do a double Axel in the "wrong direction." She couldn't do it that way, so she changed places with one of the other ladies, putting her on the other side (there were two lines) allowing her to turn the jump the way that she could do it.

Mathman
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Most skaters have a hard enough time getting the double axel in one direction , let alone two. Most don't bother to learn it in the other direction. However quite a few skaters can do a single axel in both directions (if they test ISI, 9 or10 requires axels in both directions).

I bet Rohene Ward can do a double axel in both directions (and a few other males like Stephane Lambiel who can do 3 salchows and loops in both directions).
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
That's the BIG difference between Ballet and skating. Skaters, for some reason, never learn to jump or spin for that matter in both directions. I'm not saying triples, just plain old doubles.

Good for Don Jackson still better than most male skaters today!

Don't know if Dick or Hayes could do jumps in both directions. Can anyone find out?

I haven't seen Stephane or Rohene do jumps in both directions, but I would like to. Both those young men appear to me to have the ability. I strongly think that Ilia Klimkin could do some.

Joe
 

mememe

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 20, 2004
Mathman said:
Another edge question. :)

There is a little blurb in the new International Figure Skating magazine about Don Jackson. It says that he not only made history by doing the first triple Lutz in competition, at Worlds in 1962, but also that he was the "only skater of his time to land the double Axel in both directions."

Does this mean that he could do this jump off either leg? Or is there an outside edge Axel that rotates one way and an inside edge Axel that rotates the other way? [UNQUOTE]

I believe this means he could do a double axel both clockwise and counter-clockwise.

I think I heard once that Robin Cousins could do jumps in both directions -- but I may be wrong on this. I know Robin spins in both directions beautifully, but he may not jump in both directions.

I think Gary Beacom did some clockwise and counter-clockwise jumps.

And I do believe I've heard that Todd Eldredge learned to do some double jumps counterclockwise (he's a natural clock-wiser) because of an injury. Again, a Todd fan would have to help me on this, but I believe he worked his way up to the double axel, but I can't recall actually seeing him do it.
 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Mathman said:
Another edge question. :)

There is a little blurb in the new International Figure Skating magazine about Don Jackson. It says that he not only made history by doing the first triple Lutz in competition, at Worlds in 1962, but also that he was the "only skater of his time to land the double Axel in both directions."

Does this mean that he could do this jump off either leg? Or is there an outside edge Axel that rotates one way and an inside edge Axel that rotates the other way?

The way the sentence is worded it makes it seem that Jackson was not necessarily the first to do this. I know Dick Button was the first to do a double Axel. Could he do it "both ways?" Or Hayes Alan Jenkins?

I read somewhere that the first year Lori Nichol skated with John Curry's show, the choreography called for her to do a double Axel in the "wrong direction." She couldn't do it that way, so she changed places with one of the other ladies, putting her on the other side (there were two lines) allowing her to turn the jump the way that she could do it.

Mathman


Karen Magnussen (Canadian Champion and World Champion) did most of her jumps and spins in both directions (left and right). It was thought at the time that Karen competed that it was better for a skater to develop both sides of their body equally. I don't know what the theory was based on - perhaps figures. Anyway, few skaters are able to master everthing in both directions and feel more comfortable either jumping and spinning to the left (as I do - I am a South Paw) or to the right. It was an interesting theory, but did not seem to make an impact in figure skating.

Some skaters - like Karen - did master this theory. Donald Jackson was a great jumper, so would come as no surprise that he jumped in both directions.

It was really cool to watch Karen land an axle to the right and then repeat it to the left. She also could spin well on either foot. She would do a camel spin in one direction and then in the other.

Karen was a real inspiration to watch.
 

trains

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
Bob Paul was a reverse jumper and had to learn to jump in the opposite direction to skate pairs with Barbara Wagner.
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Todd Eldredge definitely did an axel in both directions because in his 1990 Nationals freeskate, he included a counterclockwise axel (he normally jumps clockwise).

As for jumping and spinning in both directions, coaches strongly discourage this in beginning skaters. My coach makes me jump and spin counterclockwise b/c I'm right handed and he says that you need to get the technique down pat in one direction before applying it in the other direction. Most coaches can do single jumps in both directions to demonstrate to students.

Still there's little incentive to jump in both directions as it's not sufficiently rewarded. I also think it throws a skater's technique off as well. It was reported on FSU that Rohene Ward did an opposite rotating (to his normal direction) 3 toe loop in Liberty practice and that he was doing his 3 lutzes out of 4 different entries. He's amazing in practice yet when he competes he doesn't skate nearly as well. My theory is that when a skater is "too versatile" and does jumps in different directions and out of different entrances, that might mess the skater up when the competition nerves kick in because the body doesn't have a steady approach that muscle memory can rely on. Really consistent skaters do their jumps out of the same entrances all the time (ie Irina and Michelle). They don't play around with their jump approaches.
 

icenut84

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
soogar said:
Really consistent skaters do their jumps out of the same entrances all the time (ie Irina and Michelle). They don't play around with their jump approaches.

Just a point, but that's not always true for Irina - in her SP last season she did the double axel straight out of a BI3 turn (INCREDIBLY difficult entry). Besides, new entries are rewarded under COP so we might well start seeing a few more people trying them now.
 

CDMM1991

Medalist
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
I have such respect for skaters that can do this because I am DEFINITELY not one of them haha. I don't know if many people notice but Jeff Buttle in either his LP or SP I can't remember did one spin his right way, stepped out of it and did another spin right after it the other direction. Also, while training at Mariposa myslef and watching the "elite session" after i was done for the day, i saw chris mabee do a triple loop change of edge triple loop the other way! :agree: :clap: :thumbsup: :rock:
 

thisthingcalledlove

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
I do know that Slavka Kohout Button taught Janet Lynn to jump in both directions, up to the double axel (stated in Brennan's book, "Inside Edge"). Now, I don't know if she ever did it in competition...
 
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